Machine not picking up bottom on every stitch (Consew 226)

[Dominover]

I'm using a size 90 needle.

I'm also using a 100% polyester thread (strong thread).  

The Consew 226 is Bobbinless.

My problem is that no matter what I do, I can't seem to fix this problem where my machine is not picking up the thread on the underside.

This only happens every now and then but it's an ongoing problem with a size 90 needle.  This has only started happening since I changed the needle down to a size 90 (because I'm using thinner thread).  I was using size 100 before.

I've adjusted the tension over several times and even pulled the tension knobs apart and cleaned them.  No grooves in the plates.

I have re-positioned the needle several times and still the problem exists.  

The needles are the right length and the right type.  I realize it has to do with the hookup underneath but I'm not sure how to correct it.

I'm no sewing guru and think there must be something I need to use when dropping the needle size to below 100.  That's just a guess.

Any clues as to why this might happen? 

Thanks

Edited March 18, 2018 by Dominover

[Colt W Knight]

Bonded polyester thread?
 

[Dominover]

It just says 100% polyester. Glitterman brand.

 

[brmax]

It may help if a thead size can be mentioned. Curiously!

Possibly using a micrometer if nothing labeled. In anycase the 14/90 needle list for use with V46 thread, and this has a typical measure of .0094”

Although you may well know if, the needle does slide down the thread very easy. It should be a large enough needle.  

Good day

Floyd

[Dominover]

You know, I suspected that it may be the case.

I'm not sure how thick this thread is but here is a pic of it.

There is 110 yards of thread on this reel.

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Dominover

[Halitech]

that's upholstery thread. It's closer to a 46? or whatever the normal thread is for a household sewing machine. I've used it before in my brother machine and its great there for sewing jeans. But it's not really designed for heavier leather

[Dominover]

What sized needle would you use for this?  I just stepped up the needle size from a 90 to a size 100 and the skipping has gone away.  It seems that was the problem.

I would be interested in knowing what sized needle you would use for this though?

[Bugstruck]

Up way too late but it the machine is sewing okay with the 100 and up needle (if I have that right) but fails only with the 90 needle, with the same 46 thread, something is distorting the loop the hook is trying to catch with the smaller needle (stating the obvious). I assume heavier thread and larger needles are working but not sure you mentioned what thread you are using with the 100 needle. With a 100, what  weight thread are you using?  That photo looks like 46 or less.  Don't know anything about the 226 and don't understand "bobbinless" and at that 46 weight I don't think you mean pre-wound but perhaps.

[Dominover]

I have no idea how thick the thread is, but at the store it was sold as upholstery thread 100% polyester.  Extra strong.

I'm using the same thread with a size 100 needle as I was with the size 90 needle. 

Here's a link to the thread I bought.

 

https://www.spotlightstores.com/sewing-fabrics/haberdashery/sewing-threads/gutermann-extra-strong-thread/p/BP80055520-000

 

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Dominover

[Bugstruck]

Not sure the weight of that thread but I would guess 69/Tex 70 if it works with a 100/16 needle. The smaller  eye on that 90 needle is restricting the thread movenent and keeping the loop from fully forming/developing as was noted. Thread and needles are best matched using a chart like this.

http://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

If you web search "leatherworker and consew 226 needle" you should get better info than using the search engine here. It will bring you right back here in most instances. There is a better search string method but you don't need.

[Dominover]

I tried a thinner thread with my size 90 needle but the problem still persisted.  I'm thinking that the catch is not close enough to the needle on each rotation so I'm in the process of adjusting it a little closer.  Can't hurt.

The reason I think it's possibly this is because the scarf in the thinner needle may be fractionally too far from the hook (thread catch, whatever you call it).  Any thread on this size 90 needle won't stitch without failing to pick up the thread.  The needle height is perfect and I've tried several needles from different stores but still the problem persists.  The tighter hole in the size 90 needle is probably holding the thread that little bit closer into the scarf which is why the thread isn't being picked up.

Still trying to undo one stubborn screw but will update if it works.  

Edited March 20, 2018 by Dominover

[Bugstruck]

The catch you are referring to is the hook. There is a chance that the needle to hook clearance is off but there are other things I'd check first as that usually isn't where the problem lies unless someone else was in there messing with it. You really need an adjusters/repair/service manual. They all call them something a little different.

First think to check is the needle. Did you put a new 90 needle in there and still have the same issue? Lay the 90 needle beside the 100 needle. Is everything the same length and do the eyes line up? Next, where the eye of the needle is when the hook is centered on it? If that is needle is not in the right position it may be temperamental. The hook should be above the eye (varies by machine) but about 3/32" or 2mm. Make sure the needle is well seated when you do that check. I'd use the 100 needle that is working.

Eventually you may be back to the hook to needle clearance but it isn't where I'd start. I'd let that rest until you perform these other checks.

I'm glossing over the timing calibration between the top and bottom shafts but here's a post that covers that. Definitely check that.

   

[Bugstruck]

Forgot to mention you probably have maybe two timing marks on the needle bar, and should check that. My guess is the lower mark should be at the bottom of the needle bar bushing when the hook is centered on the needle. But I'd start at the correct height on the needle bar in the full down position (may be the upper mark on the needle bar if you have two). Once that is dialed in then see if the hook is centered when the lower mark is aligning with the bushing. If you do that the needle eye should be very close (distance below the hook - hook being above) to what I mentioned in the last post. If not, then the timing is off which is an easy adjustment Someone here has worked on your machine and may be able to advise better. I'm offering up generic instruction in a hurry from work and not even thinking it all the way through. I'll try an re-read this tonight and clean it up.   

[Bugstruck]

Feed lever in neutral position for needle to hook position checks. Forgot that.

[Dominover]

Thanks for your efforts.  I've checked the needles already and they've fine.  As mentioned, if I step up to a 100 needle all the problems go away.  Stepping down a size to size 90, the catch fails to pick up the thread on random occasions.  Even if I use a thinner thread. 

So I have now reset the needle height and adjusted the gap between the needle and hook.  

Now the machine will sew with the thinner thread on a sized 90 needle, but that is the thinnest thread.  But my upholstery thread I have shown above, whilst i does work on a size 90 needle, it's not perfect.  Tension is difficulty to get right and it occasionally breaks.   

I've concluded that adjusting the gap between the needle and hook has helped things but not enough for my upholstery thread (shown above) as it's probably too thick for the needle.  It slides through fine but when under tension it seems to be causing problems. 

All the timing markers line up well.  There is an instructional video on youtube for the consew 225 which is identical to my machine, the consew 226 (only difference is the reverse stitch).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wNBPX8i524

To me, it still seems strange that this thread doesn't work with this needle but when compared to the thinner thread I have, it's at least twice as thick, so maybe it really is just too thick.

 

Oh yes!.. I mentioned above that my machine is bobbinless.. I used the wrong word.. I just meant that it doesn't have a removable bobbin case.  But there is a bobbin.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Dominover

[Bugstruck]

Well we are both guessing the thread weight. If that is a 92 weight which is the most common upholestry thread,  then a larger needle may be the solution? Guterman makes good thread but determining some of their thread weights can be a challenge. Good effort researching, getting into the machine, making adjustments. That will pay dividends going forward. Once you get a decent understanding as to how a machine works, you are on the path to determining what makes them happy and faster working through any issue on that machine. A lot of that knowledge transfers too, and I am always learning something new. So even if you aren't done dialing this one in you are well on your way. Stay with it.

[Bugstruck]

Bob at Toledo has decent thread at very fair prices and you know what you have and can dial the needle to it.

[Dominover]

Thanks very much for your comments.. and thanks for the help too!

I can re-confirm that the thread thickness is an issue here.  The Consew 226 is a leather sewing machine so maybe the force 

it places on the thread is too much for a needle with a smaller eye (so either a larger needle or a thinner thread is the solution).

I'm in the process of building a tent.  First I'm sewing the floor but I don't want to use too large a needle.  This is why I've been experimenting with the size 90.  I might just settle for some thinner thread.