attaching the stirrup leathers to the fender

[barra]

I have a question about how everyone attaches their stirrup leathers to the fender. Do you attach the leather to the fender so that the grain side or flesh side of the leather passes over the tree and thru the stirrup.

Barra

[BruceGibson]

Flesh-side over the tree. Fender flesh-side attaches to the stirrup leather grain-side. I've never done it any other way, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't--you could do roughout leathers & fenders.

[bruce johnson]

Barra,

I also have always put the flesh side to the tree bars. This allows the natural abrasion of the the grit that gets in around the stirrup pin to wear the flesh side away rather than the grain side where there is more strength per unit.

I would like to expand the answers in this section without taking away from your question. I am curious how many makers prestretch the leathers (and how) before construction. I have been shown to get them sloppy wet, nail one end to a board and lever the stretch out with spikes and tack the other end and let dry. I have been shown to case the leathers and roll them back upon themselves in both directions to take stretch out. Then there is the dampen and turn the bottoms only on either the tree or a stirrup stretcher.

Bruce Johnson

[ClayB]

[quote

I would like to expand the answers in this section without taking away from your question. I am curious how many makers prestretch the leathers (and how) before construction. I have been shown to get them sloppy wet, nail one end to a board and lever the stretch out with spikes and tack the other end and let dry. I have been shown to case the leathers and roll them back upon themselves in both directions to take stretch out. Then there is the dampen and turn the bottoms only on either the tree or a stirrup stretcher.

Bruce Johnson

I was taught to soak them, nail one end to the floor joists on the basement ceiling, and hang something heavy, like a cinder block from the other end until they dry.

Clay

[steve mason]

In most cases I put the grain side down, or against the tree. When doing a twist and wrap, the grain side of the leather will be facing forward on the tail end, I seem to twist and wrap just about all saddles that I make.

To give this tread yet another turn, what do you all call the twist and wrap? I have heard many different names for this method over the years and would like to hear what you call it.

On the topic of pre stretching leathers, I have been taught a few methods and I combine them all, first off I soak the leathers, then nail one end on a board, then glass or rub the leathers hard, and by hard I mean put some effort in to it, then I will spike the ends until I can get no more length out of them. the leathers are allowed to dry at room temp. I also soak the fenders and glass the heck out them. Once they are both dry I assemble them, and get moisture into everything with the exception of where the holes are in the leathers(I do not want to stretch the hole out) I then put the fenders/leather in my stretching/shaping device and crank down on it. This will do a couple things including helping to take as much stress as possible out of the fenders and leathers and it will also train the fenders/leather so the stirrup hangs in the right position.

I will attach a photo of the stretching/shaping device. Bob Douglas sells something similar as do a few others. Another tip is to put the best stirrup leather on the left side as it will take the most abuse.

[bruce johnson]

Steve,

Are you glassing just the grain side or both sides?

I have heard the twist and wrap called Nevada twist most commonly. I have also heard it called the Oregon twist, The Northwest twist, and just plain old "twist and wrap". Good luck with the guiding and fishing this summer. I look forward to seeing more of your work in the fall.

Bruce J

[steve mason]

Bruce;

I glass the grain side on the leathers, on the fenders I glass the grain side for smooth fenders and flesh side for ruffouts.

[mulefool]

I run the grain side over the tree. I twist and wrap all mine. I've heard it called "Wyoming twist" and "Hamley twist".

[barra]

Take 2. I posted a reply last night and obviously launched it into cyberspace.

First off thanks for all the replies. As I have mentioned in previous posts, the making of a western saddle is new to me, my experience being on English and Australian stock saddles. I am having to take what I know there and adapt to western saddles. I was taught to make stirrup leathers so that the grain is against the stirrup and hence over the tree (for us this is over a suspension hook). Please bear in mind that an English leather is only a 1" strap and the traditional Australian stock leather 1 1/4" and neither are attached to the flap/fender.

The thinking behind the grain against the tree and stirrup is because it is the more robust. Then I read Bruce's post and his reasoning behind not wanting the grain side over the tree due to grit etc. Don't worry about shifting to stretching Bruce as all info is good info. Stretching would not have occured to me as we swap our leathers from near to off sides from time to time to even out the stretch. We use webbing to form the ground seat and this needs to be stretched. To do this we nail it to a board and spike it to take out the stretch, nail down the other end and drive a wedge under the taught webbing, then leave it for a day or so. I wonder if this technique would work on leathers.

Barra

Did it dawn on me to add to the twist question in my last post, no. I have heard the twist called many names, Nevada twist is the one I have heard the most. I have heard it called Oregon, Wyoming, California so I guess pick your State and add twist. I kinda like just plain old twist and wrap.

Barra

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hi Barra,

I can't remember what I was taught as far as grain in or out and talking to saddlemaker friends I'm not sure if it makes much of a difference either way. I usually have the flesh side touching the bars so that the grain side of the stirrup leather is next to the horse. I'm not positive if it's fact or fiction but I've heard a couple guys claim that the grain side of the leather resists horse's sweat a little better.

As far as stretching stirrup leathers, like Steve, I slick the dickens out the leathers while I have one end of them pinned to a board. I use a spike to stretch them as far as I can and then pin them down. I then take a couple of old spray paint cans and stick them between the leathers and the board to stretch them a little further. I've always maintained the stretch and set the shape of the fenders and twist on the drawdown stand because I haven't been able to justify the cost of the fancy stretching jigs on the market. I thought about building one but the drawdown stand seems to work fine and because I set them overnight, my stand isn't tied up during the day.

Darc

[Cowboy Crafts Online]

I think we are all pretty much doing the same. I just started glass rubbing mine last year, when I found a nice glass rub at barry king's. that little tool sure comes in handy. Just wish I would have bought it years ago.

Ashley

[waddy]

When I am pre-stretching stirrup leathers, I wet them well, then tack the ends to a 2 x 8 removing as much stretch by hand as possible, then laying another short length of 2 x 6 or 2 x 8 (depending on how stretchy and how long the leathers are) between the leathers and the board they are tacked to. Then, simply turn the short length of board on edge and leave until dry. It helps to place a piece of scrap between the edgewise board and the stirrup leathers to prevent leaving edge marks from the board. I then assemble the leathers and fenders, punch the holes, and wet the bottom of the fenders and leathers and place on the final stretching, twisting device. I place the buckles into one of the upper holes (dry leather) to prevent stretching the holes. Seems to work well.

[cjowett]

In most cases I put the grain side down, or against the tree. When doing a twist and wrap, the grain side of the leather will be facing forward on the tail end, I seem to twist and wrap just about all saddles that I make.

To give this tread yet another turn, what do you all call the twist and wrap? I have heard many different names for this method over the years and would like to hear what you call it.

On the topic of pre stretching leathers, I have been taught a few methods and I combine them all, first off I soak the leathers, then nail one end on a board, then glass or rub the leathers hard, and by hard I mean put some effort in to it, then I will spike the ends until I can get no more length out of them. the leathers are allowed to dry at room temp. I also soak the fenders and glass the heck out them. Once they are both dry I assemble them, and get moisture into everything with the exception of where the holes are in the leathers(I do not want to stretch the hole out) I then put the fenders/leather in my stretching/shaping device and crank down on it. This will do a couple things including helping to take as much stress as possible out of the fenders and leathers and it will also train the fenders/leather so the stirrup hangs in the right position.

I will attach a photo of the stretching/shaping device. Bob Douglas sells something similar as do a few others. Another tip is to put the best stirrup leather on the left side as it will take the most abuse.

At what point do yo tool the fender?

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Hi Barra,

I can't remember what I was taught as far as grain in or out and talking to saddlemaker friends I'm not sure if it makes much of a difference either way. I usually have the flesh side touching the bars so that the grain side of the stirrup leather is next to the horse. I'm not positive if it's fact or fiction but I've heard a couple guys claim that the grain side of the leather resists horse's sweat a little better.

As far as stretching stirrup leathers, like Steve, I slick the dickens out the leathers while I have one end of them pinned to a board. I use a spike to stretch them as far as I can and then pin them down. I then take a couple of old spray paint cans and stick them between the leathers and the board to stretch them a little further. I've always maintained the stretch and set the shape of the fenders and twist on the drawdown stand because I haven't been able to justify the cost of the fancy stretching jigs on the market. I thought about building one but the drawdown stand seems to work fine and because I set them overnight, my stand isn't tied up during the day.

Darc

I pretty much echo Darcy's comments. I use my saddle stand over nigh, I put a bar through the leathers and hang weights, usually about 100 lbs on the bar, ( best use I've found for my old excersize set) and let them put a continuous pull on the leathers and fenders till dry. I guess some day when I get time, I will make a stretcher for myself, some day. As for the twist and wrap, I have always called it the Arizona Wrap, cause that's what I heard it called years ago, guess just twist and wrap is good enough. About half of the saddles I do are that way.

Bob

[horsewreck]

We do a lot of stirrup leather replacements and I do mine a little different. I cut out one 6.25" strap wet it, slick it good both sides, then I clamp it down on the bench at both ends. Next I start with one 2x4 block in the center under the leather and let it stretch as I slowly add more and more blocks. I will check it from time to time and when all the stretch is out of it (I can't add anymore blocks) I let it sit a day or so to dry. When dry I then cut out my 3" straps and cut to length. I find that this gives me a nice straight set of leathers and I have noted that as we stretch the leather we also use a little width so by cutting after stretching the end result is better. I put my twist or turn in the leathers and fenders on the draw down stand after the saddle is assembled........... Jeff

[horsewreck]

As to barra's original question I put the flesh side toward the bars, that having been said when I built my first saddle around 1988 I put the stirrup leathers in with the flesh side out and the top grain contacting the bars.It was a all rough out affair and I thought it looked better, but if I were to build that same saddle today I would put the rough side toward the bars. However that first saddle is still in use and the leathers are the original ones, so I would say it does not really matter........ Jeff