Patcher machine, straight line sewing

[Silverd]

I' considering the purchaseof a claes or singer 29k type Patcher to help me sew handbags.  Have a singer 201k M2 and a techsew 5100 already.  

One place I read suggested that Patchers can't or don't sew straight very well and leave presser foot marks.  Can anyone comment re this?  

Don

[Matt S]

Patchers really aren't suited to production work. As you mention the top-feeding foot can (but doesn't always) mark the piece. However I think you'll have bigger problems with the lack of edge guides or suitable places to mount one, with the very small bobbins, with the limited maximum thickness, and with the thread size limitations. There's also a major issue in making handbags as patchers don't have unified feed, so you will encounter uneven stitch length and layer slippage compared with using a unified/compound-feed machine, such as a walking-foot Cowboy.

Is there a particular reason why you're looking at patchers specifically?

[Wizcrafts]

We have 3 patchers in our shop: 2 Singer and 1 Adler. The only one that is capable of hard work is an Adler 30-7. I have a good friend who used an Adler 30-70 as his primary sewing machine.

Singer and Adler patchers come in two bobbin sizes: small and large. The small bobbin is about the size of 3 nickles or dimes. It is only useful with #69 or #92 thread in the bobbin. This bobbin is best used for sewing patches onto vests and repairing purse straps and tabs (small runs).

The large bobbin is the size of 3 quarters. It can at least hold enough #138 thread to sew a half dozen belts or rifle slings around the outside.

The teeth are aggressive on purpose. They are the only thing that feeds the leather.

Singer large bobbin patchers can sew up to 5/16 inch, maximum, but do better at 1/4 inch. Adler 30 class patchers come in the same two bobbin sizes as the Singer (and use Singer shuttles and bobbins). But, unlike the Singer, they were made in standard and long stroke models, where the longer stroke can actually sew 3/8 inch. Those are the 30-7 and 30-70. These machines are definitely able to use #138 thread, top and bottom.

Unless it is missing, these machines have a thumbscrew in the front of the head that is used to stop the revolving mechanism from turning. You can use it to lock the feed in any direction. As long as your hands and eyes are steady and spot on, you should be able to sew a sort of straight stitch line. If you groove/gouge a line/channel it is easier to stay in it. There are no edge guides available for patchers unless you fabricate on yourself.

IHTH

[Constabulary]

I would never use a patcher for producing serious leather good. There may be some niches in production but generally patchers are machines for doing repair work. I have one but I´m barely using it. I just need it for small repairs now and then. Thats why I can live with my short arm small bobbin 29K71 fairly well otherwise the small bobbin would be a PITA.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Constabulary

[Techsew Ron]

On 05/05/2018 at 10:23 AM, Silverd said:

I' considering the purchaseof a claes or singer 29k type Patcher to help me sew handbags.  Have a singer 201k M2 and a techsew 5100 already.  

One place I read suggested that Patchers can't or don't sew straight very well and leave presser foot marks.  Can anyone comment re this?  

Don

I wouldn't recommend a patcher for production work on handbags. As mentioned above, you're limited in terms of thread thickness, presser feet options, bobbin size, sewing speed etc.. We love the machines for repairs on shoes/boots and sewing patches though - the ability to turn the presser foot and sew in any direction is nice to have. For handbags you'll want a light/medium cylinder walking foot machine which we and many other dealers sell. The prices on these are about the same as patchers but definitely more suitable for your needs.

Ron

[Silverd]

On 5/5/2018 at 7:48 AM, Matt S said:

Patchers really aren't suited to production work. As you mention the top-feeding foot can (but doesn't always) mark the piece. However I think you'll have bigger problems with the lack of edge guides or suitable places to mount one, with the very small bobbins, with the limited maximum thickness, and with the thread size limitations. There's also a major issue in making handbags as patchers don't have unified feed, so you will encounter uneven stitch length and layer slippage compared with using a unified/compound-feed machine, such as a walking-foot Cowboy.

Is there a particular reason why you're looking at patchers specifically?

All of this you say makes sense however I'm headed in the direction of Claes 30 machine due to its bigger bobin, larger needles and I think needle advance? I'm setting-

up shop to do a wide swath of leather work including some industrial lifting strap sewing and joining.

I'm thinking based on what I know, the Claes can be used in a variety of situations including some operations of bag making.  The Claes machine has needle 

 

[Silverd]

I' listening.  Good advise it seems.  The why a patcher question is because of the end seam on a bag is almost impossible using a cylinder arm.  Ron (Techsew) suggested an off the back arm machine and I agree it would be the perfect machine but I was thinking if a patcher could be made to work on a few bags it would be over all a more versatile machine to have...A Clase would be my choice.  

I see your point as to not having edge guides and inner layer slip.  I glue everything together mostly and would have to deal with the other issues case by case.  

If I design a decent drop down roller guide for it would anybody be interested?

Don

[jimi]

Just a thought??  a magnetic guide on the needle plate might work?? 

[Matt S]

Ah an improvised transverse feed machine. @Silverd could you show us a picture of the seam you want to sew? Maybe we could come up with a better way of construction between us. Using a patcher in this manner would work but wouldn't be great. @wiz described a way to use a regular cylinder bed machine as a transverse feed, which works, if a little slow.

[jimi]

oops! sorry i think i got the wrong seam.  were you meaning up the arm ??

Edited May 14, 2018 by jimi

[Silverd]

3 hours ago, Matt S said:

Ah an improvised transverse feed machine. @Silverd could you show us a picture of the seam you want to sew? Maybe we could come up with a better way of construction between us. Using a patcher in this manner would work but wouldn't be great. @wiz described a way to use a regular cylinder bed machine as a transverse feed, which works, if a little slow.

Sure

[Silverd]

End seams:

The left and right tan and black bag body pcs are french seamed sewn at each end with bitter ends to the out side.  Then top and bottom are sewn together on a cylinder arm. Works great.  The black vertical strips on each end cover the french seam bitter ends (not sure the correct term) and were sewn on a cylinder arm but required contortion folding the bag to the point that I broke needles and left presser foot marks in the material.  The sew line starts at the bottom and runs up one side of the cover strip makes a full radius 180 degree u-turn then heads back down on the other side of the cover strip.  I'l try to add another photo showing this, but that's basically the issue.  

 

[Matt S]

Yeah I can see why you're having trouble with that. Beautiful bags but those end seams look tricky. Pretty, but tricky.

A transverse feed machine would be ideal but they are rare. Looks like you could turn the bag inside out, not fully but just enough so you could do those end seams with a post bed machine.

As I alluded earlier, @wiz has described a way of using a normal cylinder bed as a transverse feed (feed on/off the arm) but it's a bit slow and awkward. Essentially you prick the bag as if you were hand sewing. Then set the machine stitch at zero. Put the needle into the first stitch mark and make a single stitch. Turn the wheel to top dead centre (when the take up arm is at its zenith). Lift the foot and, without drawing any more thread than strictly necessary, position the needle Into the next stitch hole. Drop the foot, make a single stitch, and repeat. It goes a little faster if you have a needle synchronizer and a pedal/knee lifter on that machine. Gets the job done without a new machine and avoids some of the issues with patchers.

[Silverd]

I get it!  That is a really clever solution....aside from being a bit time consuming it addresses the challenge in an unorthodox but practical manner.  I will certainly give this approach a try.

Many thanks!

 

Don

[Wizcrafts]

If you actually need a transverse feed, order one. CowboySew/Hightex makes a transverse feed machine, as do several other major brands. Here it is in action.

 

[Wizcrafts]

Puritan Industries, a US builder, makes a transverse feed model with a 36" arm, called The Alligator. Like all Puritan machines, it has no bobbin and sews a chainstitch, meaning you'd need to sew across, or glue down the starting and finishing inside chains to lock them in. One advantage of this type of machine is that it easily handles waxed linen thread of just about any size (with the proper needle and awl combo).