Clicking from the "wrong side"

[Firewalker]

Hello all, 

I have been reading clicker die threads for about an hour or so and haven't seen this mentioned.  I really do try to search before posting so here goes.  I have a clicker press and have used dies to cut out various projects but I have not ever cut them from the flesh side.  (I didn't have the need to before)  I am wanting to have some more dies made and it would be much more affordable to have a single die made that I could simply flip the leather to get the other side cut out.  Doe it work just as well cutting from the flesh side as it does the other way around or does it look different?  IE:  Distort the grain side or leave a lot of fuzzy bits?  

I have noticed when cutting from the grain side it leaves a very nice cut edge that slightly rounded over.  It is beautiful and as close to perfect as I need but haven't paid a lot of attention to the flesh side when I have been cutting.  I am trying to not have more dies made than I need and if they will cut just as well either way it would basically save me half by not having the mirror die made.  If anyone has tried it both ways please let me know what you would recommend.  On the outer edges they will be sanded and burnished so it's not as critical.  On the edge of an inner flap or pocket it may or may not be burnished depending on the style I am shooting for.  

I appreciate any feedback you might be able to provide.  Thanks in advance.

 

Scott

[BDAZ]

What I notice is that the flesh side will pick up an texture that may exist on the cutting surface and of course you are pushing the grain into the cutting surface as opposed to pushing it towards the flesh.

Bob

[JLSleather]

Well, you have a clicker, so our opinions are just about useless to a guy who could simply TRY IT, and see if you like the results.  

Truth is, I don't like the results I get with flesh side up - that's using a shop press - like you'd see for pressing bearings 'n' such - and a very sharp die.  The "break" on the edge is not clean enough.  I am sure the appearance of the back (in this case the grain side) could be improved with a higher speed press.  But I don't know that you could eliminate it. 

INSTEAD, you might consider dies made double edged.  This is fairly common for items made in pairs that need to match. 

• You "could" have dies made for "left" and "right", but that wouldn't always work out.  Most die makers offer 1/'32" accuracy - so depends on if that will work for you.  What I mean ..... you order left and right dies.  The "left" die arrives 1/32" UNDER size, which is what the maker agreed to.  And teh "right" arrives 1/32" OVER size, again within what you agreed to.  But put the two together, and the right hangs over 1/16" all the way around.  If you're going to fold it over and stitch it down, may be less critical. But if what you're making will show, maybe not acceptable.  You could trim, or sand, or smooth... but that defeats the purpose of having the die.
• OR, have ONE die made with steel sharpened on both edges.  Then place leather grain up, then the die, then another leather flesh up on top the die, and click.  Spits out a left and right that WILL match (assuming the die isn't distorted).  The places I've spoken with tell me that presharpened steel comes only in 3/4" height, which might mean a quick slight adjustment in clicking height.. otherwise, kind of a no-brainer.

[Firewalker]

9 hours ago, BDAZ said:

What I notice is that the flesh side will pick up an texture that may exist on the cutting surface and of course you are pushing the grain into the cutting surface as opposed to pushing it towards the flesh.

Bob

Thank you for the reminder.  I was stamping a makers mark into a project a little while back and it was late in the build.  (I forgot to do it before stitching it)  I ended up picking up the old cut marks in my grain side and was less than impressed.  

18 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

Well, you have a clicker, so our opinions are just about useless to a guy who could simply TRY IT, and see if you like the results.  

Truth is, I don't like the results I get with flesh side up - that's using a shop press - like you'd see for pressing bearings 'n' such - and a very sharp die.  The "break" on the edge is not clean enough.  I am sure the appearance of the back (in this case the grain side) could be improved with a higher speed press.  But I don't know that you could eliminate it. 

INSTEAD, you might consider dies made double edged.  This is fairly common for items made in pairs that need to match. 

• You "could" have dies made for "left" and "right", but that wouldn't always work out.  Most die makers offer 1/'32" accuracy - so depends on if that will work for you.  What I mean ..... you order left and right dies.  The "left" die arrives 1/32" UNDER size, which is what the maker agreed to.  And teh "right" arrives 1/32" OVER size, again within what you agreed to.  But put the two together, and the right hangs over 1/16" all the way around.  If you're going to fold it over and stitch it down, may be less critical. But if what you're making will show, maybe not acceptable.  You could trim, or sand, or smooth... but that defeats the purpose of having the die.
• OR, have ONE die made with steel sharpened on both edges.  Then place leather grain up, then the die, then another leather flesh up on top the die, and click.  Spits out a left and right that WILL match (assuming the die isn't distorted).  The places I've spoken with tell me that presharpened steel comes only in 3/4" height, which might mean a quick slight adjustment in clicking height.. otherwise, kind of a no-brainer.

Jeff, 

Thanks for the reply.  I was tempted to give it a try and see how it looked last night.  My shop is still not set up and the press stays "stored" until I dig it out to do a run.  I don't use it often but tend to use it for several hours and do everything I need at once then put the old girl away again.  

The shop press is what I am using as well.  I would love to have a hydraulic clicker but the weight and power demand makes it impossible for me.  My shop will be in a 24' car hauler as I travel for my real job.

I didn't even know the double sided dies existed honestly.  I will have to give it some thought on what I am needing and checking pricing on them.  I could see them working well on thicker leather but allowing some sag in the thinner stuff.  I think the left and right version will be close enough for what I am working on.  Thanks for the reply.  Helpful as always!

Scott

[JLSleather]

20 minutes ago, Firewalker said:

could see them working well on thicker leather but allowing some sag in the thinner stuff

Not sure the process, since it aint my thing, but I know it's done for making leather gloves in about 2-2.5 oz goat.

[LeatherLegion]

Clicking from the "wrong side" will put a bevel on that side's edges as you noticed Depending on how you gonna put those pieces together , it might be a good thing ..or not. For anything under 2-3oz  it will probably  not make a difference. When i made my pocket dies (left and right side) i actually made just one longer die and then cut the leather piece in half ending up with 2 pockets ( left and right side) . The longer die was cheaper then having 2 individual dies made . I would also use the longer die to make the pockets for long wallets where the card would be side by side with stitching in between them .

The pockets pictured bellow (left and right side) were just one long pocket that i cut down the middle 

Edited June 23, 2018 by LeatherLegion

[Firewalker]

33 minutes ago, LeatherLegion said:

Clicking from the "wrong side" will put a bevel on that side's edges as you noticed Depending on how you gonna put those pieces together , it might be a good thing ..or not. For anything under 2-3oz  it will probably  not make a difference. When i made my pocket dies (left and right side) i actually made just one longer die and then cut the leather piece in half ending up with 2 pockets ( left and right side) . The longer die was cheaper then having 2 individual dies made . I would also use the longer die to make the pockets for long wallets where the card would be side by side with stitching in between them .

The pockets pictured bellow (left and right side) were just one long pocket that i cut down the middle 

Excellent!  Thank you so much for the reply.  I was about to do it the "expensive way"

I love this site.

Scott