New Thread Company Advice

[ScoobyNewbie]

I am really excited about my spool now! Cigar is going to look very good on cinnamon deer skin gloves! 

Lol! I once had a guy from ... the coast, ask me how much trouble I had with all the stampedes. Another about toilets, and another guy tell my husband that he spent 3 weeks practicing on gravel, because “you don’t have concrete there, right?” Hahahahahaaa!

Hollywood has a lot to answer for. 

[LetterT]

Out of topic-

Hahaha... and what do we in the rest of the work have to think if we looked up to Hollywood - apparently everyone in US either a cop or a bad guy, a few lawyers here and there. Come to think of it, I do not remember I have ever seen a single movie where someone worked with leather. If we ask Hollywood leatherwork is a magical real where all the fancy bags and shoes come from.

[NVLeatherWorx]

On 8/29/2018 at 7:45 PM, bikermutt07 said:

I will add a little for the marketing end....

Once you get your product to market, send some to Nigel at Armitage Leather.

If he likes it, you may have an overnight success.

On another note, I would just like to take a minute to say how happy I am to see @NVLeatherWorx back here on this site. Sir, you and your wisdom have been missed. Thanks for coming back.

Why thank you for the kind words Sir.  I had to take a break from this world as I just saw way too much inexperience trying to shed light on things that were unknown to them, and there is still some of that going around, but I came back to make sure that the knowledge possessed by the experienced craftsmen, and we all know that there are many here that meet that level, doesn't disappear as we eventually dwindle from existence.  The only way that a new craftsman can gain true knowledge is if they are "mentored" by those who have knowledge and experience; this is our own unofficial "Apprenticeship" program if you will and I just felt like I need to get back here for that reason.

I thank you again for the kind words, and I can also tell you that this thread is quite nice so far.  Even though I am a Tiger Thread guy, this is right there with it.  As Gary gets closer to the end of the beginning, I am sure that he will see success here.

[NVLeatherWorx]

On 8/30/2018 at 11:13 AM, chrisash said:

I would suggest the o.4, 0.5 & 0.6 sizes might be a better market to break into rather than the larger sizes

These smaller sizes are not commonly used by most who hand-stitch as they are not quite as hefty as the larger sizes.  I personally use 0.8 for all of my interior lines and the exterior lines are 1.0.  When working with threads of this style, flat versus twisted, the stitch lays down much better and does not look as bulky as some of those do with twisted thread.  The size of the thread also relates directly to the overall longevity of the finished product and the thinner it is, the shorter the longevity is. Now, that isn't saying that there aren't some out there who prefer to work with the thinner threads but when you are working with a manufacturer to provide you with your desired product that you are going to sell to others you have to think about who your primary market is and what they use; also keep in mind that the manufacturer is going to expect certain purchase levels of everything you commit to in order for it to be worth their while to invest in the tooling and production line equipment requirements and if you can't commit to what they may require from you then that is where that desire for that certain something comes to an end.  In the case here the manufacturer knows what the limits of their production line are and also have a vast knowledge in the limitations of the finished products across the various thicknesses and have made a business decision to not enter into certain sizes at this time.  They may change their mind if there is enough evidence of a market need but that is for them to determine.  Gary maintains contact with them very religiously so the door isn't totally locked down, it is just kind of closed with a screen door for now.

[bikermutt07]

@NVLeatherWorx, I couldn't have said it better myself. You, and like you said, many others are treasured assets here. 

As a novice/intermediate I try to field as many newcomer questions as possible. I know others do as well. We feel like it's our responsibility to field the soft pitch questions so you guys can spend time on the harder questions.

But, never for a moment fail to correct me if I am wrong on something. I don't know everything, and I am always ready for correction. My knowledge here is further along than my actual hands on experience. And I'm the first to admit when I make a mistake.

I treat everyday as school in my life. And I have found I can learn something from anyone, no matter their skill level (in any field).

Good Day, Sir.

:End hijack.

[blue duck]

Mr. Gary~ I realize I am late to the party here, but would like to add, if I may.Reading through this entire thread, there are a couple of things that came to mind. They seem to have been addressed, but will reiterate, for what it is worth.

When I first started with leather in the late 70's, there was not much to choose from. Certainly no way to try and find options in the dinky town I was in. So through the years have tried countless threads. I use Ritza at this point in making. Like the strength, wax, etc. as do many others. However, I never really cared for the flat design of it. I have a time trying to keep it from twisting. So thought a 'rounder' type thread would be nice, if possible. (what do I know about making thread?) Reading the review from Mr. Richard, it appears you may have addressed this. 

As for the size,, I usually use .8 or 1.0, but would like the option for .6 on small items. Maybe, if it all works, down the road you could convince them to add a bit smaller one to the lineup. For the next step in your plan, the sewing machine thread, I do use #69, but only for fabric linings when requested. Actual leather is #90 or #138. I hand stitch the thick stuff. And as mentioned, the machine requires a left twist thread. I think most industrial machines have a lube pot, or other lube system, mine does not, don't know if or how that would figure into the thread making.

I don't use a stitching groove, so the thread sits on top of the leather. After hammering down, it doesn't sit proud, but it isn't in the protected groove either. So a thread that can take a bit of abrasion perhaps. I imagine somewhere along the line, that is one of the tests you will run.

The number of colors you are considering is pretty impressive.

Sounds like you are coming along nicely with your project. Look forward to giving it a try. Wish you the best of luck.

[Garyspruill]

5 hours ago, blue duck said:

Mr. Gary~ I realize I am late to the party here, but would like to add, if I may.Reading through this entire thread, there are a couple of things that came to mind. They seem to have been addressed, but will reiterate, for what it is worth.

When I first started with leather in the late 70's, there was not much to choose from. Certainly no way to try and find options in the dinky town I was in. So through the years have tried countless threads. I use Ritza at this point in making. Like the strength, wax, etc. as do many others. However, I never really cared for the flat design of it. I have a time trying to keep it from twisting. So thought a 'rounder' type thread would be nice, if possible. (what do I know about making thread?) Reading the review from Mr. Richard, it appears you may have addressed this. 

As for the size,, I usually use .8 or 1.0, but would like the option for .6 on small items. Maybe, if it all works, down the road you could convince them to add a bit smaller one to the lineup. For the next step in your plan, the sewing machine thread, I do use #69, but only for fabric linings when requested. Actual leather is #90 or #138. I hand stitch the thick stuff. And as mentioned, the machine requires a left twist thread. I think most industrial machines have a lube pot, or other lube system, mine does not, don't know if or how that would figure into the thread making.

I don't use a stitching groove, so the thread sits on top of the leather. After hammering down, it doesn't sit proud, but it isn't in the protected groove either. So a thread that can take a bit of abrasion perhaps. I imagine somewhere along the line, that is one of the tests you will run.

The number of colors you are considering is pretty impressive.

Sounds like you are coming along nicely with your project. Look forward to giving it a try. Wish you the best of luck.

Mr Duck Blue,

Thank you for your response,

Mr Richard (NVLeatherWorx) has given me a different view on the "why" our mfg does not want to make the 0.60, yet after many phone calls, emails and discussions - negations, the best answer I have gotten so far on that size of thread is: let's see how the sales go first, then re-look at it down the road. Hmmmm? Note: I am not a settler nor like being under the gun for future items that I want to offer "now"! I have to either proceed with what I have or start all over with a different mfg to get it and settle for what I am getting, which I do not want to do. I may just have to give in and accept the fact: I have to wait and listen to all the folks tell me they want a 0.60 till I get it. I hate it that way, but may be the only route to go at this time. Once sales are what I think (my opinion) will be, it will not be long until I take a bat and force them to make it for me. 

The sewing machine thread we are looking at: is left twisted (Z) and double bonded and some type of pre-lubed thread. I am still learning all the products they use to get it lubed, but getting there. They offer up to a 500 series in sizing, yet thinking of not going past the 300 series sizing for product marketing purposes.

Duck Blue: I have about 5 folks trying out this thread for me. I do not feel any of them would be upset "if" I offered some to you as well if you wanted to take a test drive with some just to get a different set of eyes on it and see the "if" we have it right or not? I am a guy that loves feedback, both good and bad. If you do want some, send me a PM with your shipping address (include you name) and I will pop three of 4 spools in the mail to you.

I really want this stuff "right"! Not close!

I have (4) spools setting here on my desk right now for anyone that wants to participate. Size: 0.80, 1.0, 1.2 and 1.4.

I bought this really cool wooden spool spinner that grabs the spool, and winds thread on it from the larger bolt. Man that thing make my life much easier :-) it's original use was for yarn.

 

Thanks again,

 

Gary

[Garyspruill]

22 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

These smaller sizes are not commonly used by most who hand-stitch as they are not quite as hefty as the larger sizes.  I personally use 0.8 for all of my interior lines and the exterior lines are 1.0.  When working with threads of this style, flat versus twisted, the stitch lays down much better and does not look as bulky as some of those do with twisted thread.  The size of the thread also relates directly to the overall longevity of the finished product and the thinner it is, the shorter the longevity is. Now, that isn't saying that there aren't some out there who prefer to work with the thinner threads but when you are working with a manufacturer to provide you with your desired product that you are going to sell to others you have to think about who your primary market is and what they use; also keep in mind that the manufacturer is going to expect certain purchase levels of everything you commit to in order for it to be worth their while to invest in the tooling and production line equipment requirements and if you can't commit to what they may require from you then that is where that desire for that certain something comes to an end.  In the case here the manufacturer knows what the limits of their production line are and also have a vast knowledge in the limitations of the finished products across the various thicknesses and have made a business decision to not enter into certain sizes at this time.  They may change their mind if there is enough evidence of a market need but that is for them to determine.  Gary maintains contact with them very religiously so the door isn't totally locked down, it is just kind of closed with a screen door for now.

:-) still trying to meet a marketing side, 

23 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

Why thank you for the kind words Sir.  I had to take a break from this world as I just saw way too much inexperience trying to shed light on things that were unknown to them, and there is still some of that going around, but I came back to make sure that the knowledge possessed by the experienced craftsmen, and we all know that there are many here that meet that level, doesn't disappear as we eventually dwindle from existence.  The only way that a new craftsman can gain true knowledge is if they are "mentored" by those who have knowledge and experience; this is our own unofficial "Apprenticeship" program if you will and I just felt like I need to get back here for that reason.

I thank you again for the kind words, and I can also tell you that this thread is quite nice so far.  Even though I am a Tiger Thread guy, this is right there with it.  As Gary gets closer to the end of the beginning, I am sure that he will see success here.

Thank you:

Gary

[LetterT]

Any news?

[flhx06]

Mr. Gary (Garyspruill),

 Put me down for an update as well please. I just stumbled across this post and am quite intrigued.

Andrew