Steps for wet forming

[GregS]

So being a newbie, I've done some cutting, stitching, tooling, wet forming, etc.  I made a small pocket organizer for my flashlight, pen and multitool.  It works for me, but I want to improve on it.  Next version is going to be wet formed and dyed.  But I need some help with the order of the steps I need to use.

So the steps I think I need to do are cut the leather, wet form, dye, glue and stitch.

But do I dye before or after wet forming?  I'm using Fiebling's Pro Dye, if that makes a difference.

[battlemunky]

I always dye after the forming is over and completely dried. I follow a similar path as you but I leave the size of the leather quite a bit larger than usual since it always seems to shift or move some and the edges don't always line back up so the generous slop is welcome. 

Fiebing's Pro Dye is about all I use anymore. I have a little bit of their other dye but am almost out of it and I really like the Pro Dye better.

[GregS]

I haven't formed an opinion on various dyes since I haven't done much dying.  I just asked the guys at the Tandy store and they recommended Pro Dye.

How about if I wanted to tool the leather and put on antique?  I guess tooling would need to be done after wet forming so I didn't ruin the design.  Can wet formed leather be tooled?

[battlemunky]

I've seen that with some of the non-pro dyes they will leave a metallic haze behind sometimes and I couldn't figure out when it would or why it did so I opted to stay with the pro stuff since it is far more predictable.

Tooling and wet forming is always iffy when I've tried it. You can lose all your definition if you form where you tooled and at the same time if you form first it becomes really difficult to tool on curves. Because of that, if I'm wet forming I don't tool and I don't tool something I've wet formed. I have seen it done, it is just outside my skill set/level of patience at this point in my leathery adventures. By all means, if you do, please post your stuff.

[klutes]

I am wet forming bowls. No tooling and I always dye first. Pro dye.

[GregS]

3 hours ago, klutes said:

I am wet forming bowls. No tooling and I always dye first. Pro dye.

Bowls, I've never thought of leather bowls.  I'll have to take a look.

4 hours ago, battlemunky said:

Because of that, if I'm wet forming I don't tool and I don't tool something I've wet formed. I have seen it done, it is just outside my skill set/level of patience at this point in my leathery adventures. By all means, if you do, please post your stuff.

I can understand how it would be extremely difficult.  I have no plans on tooling a piece of wet formed leather, just asking since it came to mind.

[ScoobyNewbie]

People say I like this, or I like that Battlemunky, but they rarely say why. Could you please tell me why you like the ProDye better then the alcohol dyes? I like water based and waterstain because it doesn’t smell bad or require a vent, plus I don’t seem to have to buff as much.

Discuss. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by ScoobyNewbie

[battlemunky]

@ScoobyNewbie, the pro dye is more consistent and penetrates better for the leather stuff I do. I have the waterstains and like the colors but they do tend to wear off with abrasion and don't ever seem to seal well against water and end up losing dye and staining surrounding things when they get wet/sweated upon. If you like the worn look, cool, but I don't.

The Fiebing's alcohol dyes leave behind a lot more pigment on the surface which require a bit more elbow grease to remove to keep it from transferring onto clothes/skin, also they tend to leave behind a metallic sheen on some stuff that I have yet to figure out how to control.

I'm not sure if the question was for me but that is my answer

[klutes]

I use the,alcohol based dye just because that’s what I started out with years ago and see no reason to change. Sorry but that’s why.

[ScoobyNewbie]

I’ve been told that ProDye really sucks into leather by a couple of people. That it absorbs more. Have you found that to be true as well? I haven’t been around long enough to see any of my waterstain stuff wear or leak from dampness.

[battlemunky]

@ScoobyNewbie, I've heard that the pro dyes have a different pigment that does penetrate better and the alcohol dyes has more of a powder pigment that leaves some on the surface.

Regarding the waterstains, I have a few things that I used green waterstain on and on the corners where they come into contact with pockets and other things, they have rubbed off with time and leave behind a dark brown due to inside pocket burnishing/polishing. It doesn't look bad and actually has some character but if I bought a green sheath, I want it to stay green. As far as waterfastness goes, if you get a water soluble thing into some water, you are going to have some leach out/off. I've seen this with the sheath I have; a little rain or snow and it does transfer color. I've also noticed that the waterstain is a little finicky with streaking when applying. I don't dislike them outright but I don't get anywhere close to the consistency with them as I do the pro dye. For the 50 cents more (or so) per bottle, I'm willing to pony that up from now on. Many of the brown waterstains are quite nice but I've sorta commited to the pro dyes before I used more of the waterstain products.

[ScoobyNewbie]

I did a sample purse at the store when I started. The Erica Crossbody. Cute purse, has a bit of a wallet.

Any way, not knowing what I was doing I slathered on the blue Waterstain onto the front panel. Gorgeous deep blue, contrasted really well with the white lotus and the green waterweed. Then I was told I should have oiled the leather before I painted it. So I oiled all the rest of it. 

It came out kind of marbled instead of the deep blue of the front panel. Still pretty and in theme, as it were, to a waterlilly/underwater style. But I really liked the deep blue. 

I can see why you would want your work to stay the way you made it, it seems silly to put as much effort and thought into the stuff you guys make, and then have it just rub off. 

So waterstains have less penetration, or maybe they need to be sealed to keep from rubbing off? Would a finish be the answer? One of the sheens? Or Neatlac, or resolene?

[Mattsbagger]

Pro dyes pigment is oil based. Hence why originally they were called “Oil Dye”. The carrier is still alcohol. They changed the name because it caused confusion. That’s why they changed  to “Pro Dye”. 90% of the time I use an airbrush to dye. I only use Pro Dye as it works best for me. Dyeing is an art more than a science. Different hides or even different parts of a single hide will dye differently. That’s why I prefer the airbrush. I can layer on dye till I get the color I want. 

[Treed]

Tooling and wet forming depends on the items being made. I do a lot of tooled holsters in different guns that require wet forming of the holster. This type of item I will tool first before I form as the item that I am forming around is not solid and smooth to tool against. This type of item is also made with thicker leather and most of the time has a liner of tooling leather. The item is tooled, built and then wet formed around the gun. The item receives a moderate to high moisture content to the inside of the item and none to light moisture content to the tooled area. This type of molding will require something like a press or vacuum press to apply enough pressure to mold the leather to the item without deforming the tooling.  Other items such as bags, ammo pouches, etc. I cut and form over wooden molds. These type of item I build a wooden copy of the item so that I have a solid base to tool against. I then cut and mold the leather to the shape that i want over the wooden mold. I then dry and as the leather comes back to right moisture content I then tool the leather over the wooden mold and then final construction.