What kind of rivet is this?

[TerryJ]

 Sorry for the dumb question, but I’m not well versed in hardware, and   just  got a dual clip holster that has these holding the clips on. When I inquired about dual cap rivets to an “ expert” he insinuated that they shouldn’t be used like that on a holster, because they’re weak. If true, is there a stronger type for holster use?  Is this just a dual cap with one side flattened?

Pics are of front and back of the rivet. One side is domed, the other flat.

thanks

Edited March 2, 2019 by TerryJ
Question

[Mattsbagger]

A double cap rivet. When they set it they didn’t set the base of the rivet on the domed base. They did use the domed setter for the top. Sometimes people call them rapid rivets also.

 

 

[fredk]

25 minutes ago, TerryJ said:

 . . . When I inquired about dual cap rivets to an “ expert” he insinuated that they shouldn’t be used like that on a holster, because they’re weak. If true, is there a stronger type for holster use? . . . 

A. its as Matt says

B. A lot of 'experts' don't know what they are talking about. Correctly set rapid rivets are as strong as any rivet. I've been using them for nearly 20 years and I've never had one fail yet. One primary use I've used them on is on medieval type shields. The shields get used in full contact fights. They get thrown, literally, around by their straps. Never has a rivet failed.

Here's a close up of a guige riveted to the wood shield. This particular shield spent 7 days fighting at Bannockburn 4 years ago. The rivet on the right was whacked with a flat face hammer on a flat anvil. The middle one was set using a setting bar on the anvil. the one on the left is not a rivet but a snap for easy removal of the guige.

The guige from a different shield which was also used at Bannockburn. 7 days of full contact fighting, the shield being thrown around by its straps.

These 'experts' just keep repeating what other 'experts' have said - they've probably never actually used rapid rivets and they just perpetuate the myth that a rapid rivet is not strong whereas in my experience they are strong.

 

[TerryJ]

Thanks for the information. The holster looked well made and it surprised me when the other guy said that. I’ll do some more research about them. I plan to fasten some leather and need to find out about length of the stem and what not .

thanks again!

[fredk]

10 hours ago, TerryJ said:

Thanks for the information. The holster looked well made and it surprised me when the other guy said that. I’ll do some more research about them. I plan to fasten some leather and need to find out about length of the stem and what not .

Stem length should be about 3mm longer than the thickness of the leather. Too short and the rivet will not set, ie join, properly and the head could come off under strain. Too long and the stem has nowhere to go within the head so it bends over displacing the head from where you want it. Use a head size according to the strain which might be put on the rivet. The stem length can be cut shorter to suit. Its easy enough to cut

For decorative purposes I use 4mm head, for joining lightweight leather which is also stitched I use 6mm head, but usually I use 8 to 10mm head.  Afair the guige to shield rivet [above photos] was an 11 or 12mm head and the other was a 9mm. Basically you want a wide head to spread any staining load or the leather will pull out round the head, like a Sam Brown stud.

A double-head ready rivet is just a single head type with a head cover over the base of the stem, it plays no part in altering the strength of the rivet, but it does make it look better if both sides of the rivet can be seen, also, I've found that the base of a single-head type can split and have a sharp edge so the head cap covers that, less chance of hurting anyone. I only use double-head rivets now. Slightly more expensive but worth it, imo

[LeatherCritic]

On 3/1/2019 at 8:47 PM, fredk said:

These 'experts' just keep repeating what other 'experts' have said - they've probably never actually used rapid rivets and they just perpetuate the myth that a rapid rivet is not strong whereas in my experience they are strong.

I agree that information is often passed along and repeated. Ultimately, only you can ask the proper follow up questions to the expert for why they say that.  Is it something they have experienced, or is it from something they have read?

For my own response, the terms weak and strength are both relative.  What is the expected use?  How much confidence or room for error is there?  A physicist or mechanical engineer would want to know how much force they can hold/support before failure… simply put weak and stronger does not tell me much.  If these snaps are expected to hold up a saddle or reins, maybe they are "weak".  I don't know too much about holsters, but if they're expected to hold a magnum or colt, under lots of use… perhaps they fail after so many uses and are weak?

Rivets (in general) tend to be easily pliable, often with a ballpoint hammer and some light taps.  So I don't know what the exact measurement of force they can withstand, but you should consider it to some degree.  Will the leather tear before the rivet fails is another question to consider.

[bikermutt07]

If I'm reading the picture right? It looks as the rivet is just being used as a stay for that clip. If so it would take a shearing move to ever tear it out. That would take much more force to remove than say the the shield rivet that Fred shows an example of. Which, he has assured us is plenty strong.