Shaping a bag - sewing texon/bontex

[Klaken]

I am making a weekender bag out of chrome-tanned leather which is quite soft. Therefore, I need to stiffen the bag up to make hold the desired form when empty. After the bag is stiff enough I will also drop in a lining. To make it stiff enough I have been experimenting with texon/bontex. I was thinking if I can apply the same way of thinking as with the lining by sewing a box which I drop in the bag and sew at some strategic places? I have thought about just adding some thick leather to stiffen the bag but it will make the bag quite thick and too heavy. I have a few things I am still unsure of:

1. Saddle stitching texon/bontex - will it hold over time? Is it a better way to put two pieces of texon together?

2. Sewing corners with texon - Is there a good way of doing this so I can shape a box out of texon sheets?

 

[garypl]

You can buy bag stiffener from Tandy.  I bought a piece several years ago to use with a portfolio and it worked well.  I think it was about $20 for a 48 x 36” piece.  There are other products you can use and if you search for bag stiffener in this forum I am sure you will find many ideas.

Gary

[Klaken]

42 minutes ago, garypl said:

You can buy bag stiffener from Tandy.  I bought a piece several years ago to use with a portfolio and it worked well.  I think it was about $20 for a 48 x 36” piece.  There are other products you can use and if you search for bag stiffener in this forum I am sure you will find many ideas.

Gary

Hi Gary,

The stiffener I have, goes under the name Bontex in the US and Texon in Europe, is very similar if not the same as the one Tandy sells. I am quite happy with the product itself and plan to use it, right now I am mostly wondering about how. I have searched the forum but haven't really found what I am looking for, but glueing and then sewing trough the stiffener seems to work quite well which I think answers my first questions

[LatigoAmigo]

10 hours ago, Klaken said:

I need to stiffen the bag up to make hold the desired form when empty.

I face the same issue with most of the bags I make. On my last bag I Barge-cemented a piece of thin veg-tan on the inside of the body's front and back pieces, flesh-side to flesh-side. It provided the needed support and has held up very well. I use Bontex to keep the bottom of the bag stiff, as it is very cardboard like, and I wouldn't expect it to work very well on the other parts of the bag, at least in my case, as it could get bent or damaged, and not retain its original flat shape.

Edited March 26, 2019 by LatigoAmigo

[Klaken]

2 hours ago, LatigoAmigo said:

I face the same issue with most of the bags I make. On my last bag I Barge-cemented a piece of thin veg-tan on the inside of the body's front and back pieces, flesh-side to flesh-side. It provided the needed support and has held up very well. I use Bontex to keep the bottom of the bag stiff, as it is very cardboard like, and I wouldn't expect it to work very well on the other parts of the bag, at least in my case, as it could get bent or damaged, and not retain its original flat shape.

Thanks, that is really helpful. The part about the Bontex getting bent or damaged sounds worrying. I was hoping that I could avoid adding more leather as the weight quickly adds up, but maybe that is the best option after all. I just can't completely shake of the idea of using bontex as for this project it would make things so much simpler, I have it in 0.6 and 0.8 mm and I wonder if I can still reinforce parts of the side to give the bag the initial lift 

[blue duck]

Bontex/Texon is a good product to use for bags as it has been impregnated with a treatment to prevent mold/mildew. Depending on the structure you are looking for you could glue the two wts. together. They make it (well that I know of) up to about 1.25 mm (if I did the math right). That is really stiff. If you plan on turning the bag, it may not be the answer as you can not get the shape back if it is wrinkled or bent. The best application would be to glue with Barge as mentioned above to the inside of the stitch line. You will need to make sure it is smoothed out as you go or it will be a mess. Then your lining should be stitched where it will help hold it in place as well. Not sure about the box shape you are trying to make. Are you thinking something like a suitcase? Or not that structured?

[LatigoAmigo]

40 minutes ago, Klaken said:

I just can't completely shake of the idea of using bontex as for this project

If you try it, I would like to know how it turns out. The product I have is called Texon, and may not be exactly like Bontex, although it is supposed to be very similar. I purchased it at a Tandy store, and it came in only one weight, 2 mm, which is pretty thick. I am interested in what you are using, as it may exhibit different properties than what I have.

[Klaken]

42 minutes ago, blue duck said:

Bontex/Texon is a good product to use for bags as it has been impregnated with a treatment to prevent mold/mildew. Depending on the structure you are looking for you could glue the two wts. together. They make it (well that I know of) up to about 1.25 mm (if I did the math right). That is really stiff. If you plan on turning the bag, it may not be the answer as you can not get the shape back if it is wrinkled or bent. The best application would be to glue with Barge as mentioned above to the inside of the stitch line. You will need to make sure it is smoothed out as you go or it will be a mess. Then your lining should be stitched where it will help hold it in place as well. Not sure about the box shape you are trying to make. Are you thinking something like a suitcase? Or not that structured?

If only glueing would hold it in place that would be great, I can't sandwich it between two pieces of leather as then I would run into the weight problem again. The way I was considering to do it would be to create a box shape like I plan to do to lining and then glue it to the sides and stitching it together at the top with the zipper and on the sides of the bag (shoulder strap attachment and handle attachments). But maybe I am overthinking it here and it would work just as well to attach the pieces seperatly on each side?

The bag is inspired by the Mulberry Clipper (https://www.mulberry.com/us/shop/women/travel/holdalls/clipper-oak-natural-leather), and I wish to retain a shape as such pictured also when the bag is empty, - more or less. I think the shorter sides would benefit from using the thicker .8mm and for the longer sides I was thinking I would go with .6mm of Texon. The benefit of creating a box as I see it would be to avoid qurky corners in the bag but maybe that wouldn't be a problem anyhow? I have the outer layer of the bag completed, the lining I will be using is very soft and will unfortunately not add that much to the structure of the bag. Maybe I can try to upload a picture of the box I have created for testing purpose and that might be more informative of what I am trying to achieve

41 minutes ago, LatigoAmigo said:

If you try it, I would like to know how it turns out. The product I have is called Texon, and may not be exactly like Bontex, although it is supposed to be very similar. I purchased it at a Tandy store, and it came in only one weight, 2 mm, which is pretty thick. I am interested in what you are using, as it may exhibit different properties than what I have.

I think they are actually the same product, just sold under different names depending on where you are located. For me, living in Europe, it was sold under the name Texon. I would say that both the .6 and .8 are about as stiff as a 2mm veg-tan leather (very roughly), I can imagen that the 2mm is quite stiff and maybe in my case would be more suitable for the base of the bag as I believe you used it. I will update the thread if I decide to use the texon!

[LatigoAmigo]

34 minutes ago, Klaken said:

I would say that both the .6 and .8 are about as stiff as a 2 mm veg-tan leather (very roughly)

For point of reference, here is the bag where I used some 1.5 mm economy grade veg-tan as a stiffener on the front and back (but not on the sides). I like the result, so would look forward to finding Bontex/Texon that could be used instead.

Edited March 26, 2019 by LatigoAmigo

[Klaken]

16 minutes ago, LatigoAmigo said:

For point of reference, here is the bag where I used some 1.5 mm economy grade veg-tan as a stiffener on the front and back (but not on the sides). I like the result, so would look forward to finding Bontex/Texon that could be used instead.

 

Looks really nice! I will do my best to follow up on this thread as I keep working on the bag.If it works out with Texon I can see some nice benefits with it. I saw that you are based in the US and bought the product under the label Texon, I was so sure it was just a matter of different labels for different regions but I guess that proves otherwise

[blue duck]

A picture is always a big help. 

If you choose to go with veg tan, for this or another project, you need to consider the temper not just how it is tanned. Some very thin veg tan is quite stiff as well as thicker being softer. Just something to keep in mind.

Since you have already finished the outside, I think I would laminate two pieces of texon together, size to fit bottom of bag, cover with leather  (preferable) or lining material (won't hold up as well, if it is fabric) and then just lay it in the bottom.

Keeping the shape of the bag even when empty may not be a feasible goal with this project. Usually chrome tan has a soft temper that won't do what you are wanting. Even veg tan, when broken in, will not retain the shape first created. Almost certainly, the bag for sale was stuffed for the pictures to keep the shape.

[Klaken]

2 minutes ago, blue duck said:

A picture is always a big help. 

If you choose to go with veg tan, for this or another project, you need to consider the temper not just how it is tanned. Some very thin veg tan is quite stiff as well as thicker being softer. Just something to keep in mind.

Since you have already finished the outside, I think I would laminate two pieces of texon together, size to fit bottom of bag, cover with leather  (preferable) or lining material (won't hold up as well, if it is fabric) and then just lay it in the bottom.

Keeping the shape of the bag even when empty may not be a feasible goal with this project. Usually chrome tan has a soft temper that won't do what you are wanting. Even veg tan, when broken in, will not retain the shape first created. Almost certainly, the bag for sale was stuffed for the pictures to keep the shape.

 

For the bottom of the bag I have used plexiglass which turned out quite nice. I have never made an item of this size so there are many steps I am unfamiliar with. I have filed down all sharp corners on the plexiglass but maybe an additional layer would be good in order to protect the lining. I think you are right that I should expect any bag to "loose" it shape a bit after a while and probably should be what I would go for when working with the stiffener to avoid an unnatural look of the bag.

 

The box would consist of 4 parts to cover the inside of the bag. This is due to the form of the bag where the bottom of the bag is boxed and the upper not being boxed, resulting in different widths for the bottom and top part. In my head I divide the bag in a lower and top part which also is formed when the bag is closed and the top is tied down. I have attached a picture of what I have been playing with below, this is the lower part and the top part would then be attached to this two parts. I choose to separate the box as I made the bag inside out with a fold on side running from the bottom to the top of the bag. The way I was thinking was that if the short sides and the wide sides were to be attached to each other it would take away possible quirky corner effects occurring when the leather moves. This, after attaching the top part, would be lowered into the bag and glued to respective sides of the bag.

[LatigoAmigo]

4 hours ago, Klaken said:

I should expect any bag to "loose" it shape a bit after a while and probably should be what I would go for when working with the stiffener to avoid an unnatural look of the bag.

I found a stiffener that you might find interesting, as it is made out of real leather. That might just help it behave more like the leather that is it being bonded to. It is called Leather fibre board, also known as leather board, bonded leather or Salpa, and it is available from a company in the Netherlands. Here is a link:  

https://www.hollandindustries.nl/en/products/shoe-materials/leather-fibre-board/

[beltbuckles]

On 3/26/2019 at 5:52 PM, Klaken said:

 

For the bottom of the bag I have used plexiglass which turned out quite nice. I have never made an item of this size so there are many steps I am unfamiliar with. I have filed down all sharp corners on the plexiglass but maybe an additional layer would be good in order to protect the lining. I think you are right that I should expect any bag to "loose" it shape a bit after a while and probably should be what I would go for when working with the stiffener to avoid an unnatural look of the bag.

 

 for the bottom part, you can use like a rubber mat carpet... it is heavy and it flexes pretty well. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by beltbuckles

[Klaken]

A quick update, in the end I decided to use some cheap, stained veg-tan of 1.8mm I had laying around. I have however not ruled out using Texon in the future, I think 0.6mm Texon it shaped the bag quite similar to the leather I decided to go with in the end. The reason to why I went with the leather is that it was just easier to attach and put in the bag at this stage, in the future if I will use Texon it will probably be incorporated into the bag at an earlier stage of the process. I really appreciate all the help I got in this thread!

[Katrice]

Hi! I realize I’m a little late to this discussion but am curious how other solutions have worked. I have bought and used the stiffener from Tandy but have found it to be too stiff and rigid. I think I could swing my bag as a weapon! I’m in search of something just a slight bit more supple. 

[Rockoboy]

On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 10:15 AM, Katrice said:

I’m in search of something just a slight bit more supple. 

If you wet the leather then dry it with a very low heat, the leather will stiffen. Alternatively, glue and sew a thin backing (like 2.0mm leather) to your project, that can assist with stiffening up the project.

[Frodo]

I am working on the same problem as you at this moment.

The last bag I worked on i stiffened it up with a thin strip of metal,,that bends with the bag and ''springs''  back into place

I am incorporating it into the 4 side corners and the opening...

Edited October 6, 2019 by Frodo

[PatC61]

Katrice am I happy I read your post.  I just practiced a bag (totally glued together) and used Bontex.  That bag is a weapon in disguise.  I was going to buy the product from Tandy but since your bag is also weaponised I will refrain from purchasing it.  I too am in the market for a good bag stiffener that helps the bag keep its shape but not rock hard.

[toxo]

On 3/26/2019 at 7:55 AM, Klaken said:

I am making a weekender bag out of chrome-tanned leather which is quite soft. Therefore, I need to stiffen the bag up to make hold the desired form when empty. After the bag is stiff enough I will also drop in a lining. To make it stiff enough I have been experimenting with texon/bontex. I was thinking if I can apply the same way of thinking as with the lining by sewing a box which I drop in the bag and sew at some strategic places? I have thought about just adding some thick leather to stiffen the bag but it will make the bag quite thick and too heavy. I have a few things I am still unsure of:

1. Saddle stitching texon/bontex - will it hold over time? Is it a better way to put two pieces of texon together?

2. Sewing corners with texon - Is there a good way of doing this so I can shape a box out of texon sheets?

 

I had exactly the same problem a while back. I had some nice faux croc that I wanted to make a gym bag out of but it wouldn't stand up. I ended up lining the whole inside with veg tan and it ended up more like a stylish suitcase. I sold it.

[Wepster]

just musing, I wonder how cork "leather" would work as a stiffener?

https://www.google.com/search?q=cork+leather&oq=cork+leather&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIGCAEQRRhBMgYIAhBFGEEyBggDEEUYQdIBCDM3MTZqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[blue duck]

Anything can be used as a stiffener or a stay. It all depends on the look you are after and the quality of your product. For example, you can use the cereal box, but it will not hold up. Felt, foam, leather, bontex/texon, interfacing, etc. can be used and work well depending on application. Sometimes the look you want will dictate the stay, but it might require a different approach to construction as well.