Long shot...Siruba machines?

[trash treasure]

OK -

Nothing really holds the thread in the spreader - The point is shaped that way, so the spreader can pick up the thread and push it across the stitch on each pass. The thread is not actually, permanently held in the spreader.

It's possible the deal with the looper is that the orbit may or may not be set up correctly - It should pass very close to the needles both front and back, but I don't think it should deflect them that much.  The "orbit" describes the actual path the point of the looper takes around the needles in it's travel - It's sort of a oval-shaped path, and the orientation and timing of this path should be adjustable, with an eccentric timing crank, inside the machine - It should have match marks, that are shifted a tiny amount, forward or back, to change this timing.............. The thing is, that I can't tell you where it is on your Siruba - Probably in the upper arm, but more than that, I don't know - Sorry

The "point" of the looper is just the forward-most point of the thing, and the "needle center" is the center line of the needle shank - I don't know how else to describe it............. But, as I said, those numbers (and ALL the numbers I've quoted) are for the Kansai WX series, so beware, YMMV.

I think you have it threaded correctly, and the extra holes in the plate above the tensions may just be there so you can have the option of using them for certain thread types, or just to have a place to tie off different colors, so they'd be handy to change, or ...........?    I don't think you'd use more than one hole of each set, normally.

I wish I could help more, but I'm not a factory mechanic, and can only reference the relatively few machines I've worked on - There was a guy on here that IS a professional factory mechanic, with a lot of experience with many machine types, but he hasn't posted for a while now.   I'm just afraid of leading you in the wrong direction, so PLEASE just be sure that any adjustments you make are SMALL ones, and check every time by turning the machine over by hand, to see what is happening, before putting power to it.

[Wizcrafts]

I'll see if I can get our member, @gottaknow to read this topic. He is a machine mechanic in a major West coast sewing factory and works with all types of industrial sewing machines.

[Sugarkryptonite]

15 hours ago, trash treasure said:

OK -

Nothing really holds the thread in the spreader - The point is shaped that way, so the spreader can pick up the thread and push it across the stitch on each pass. The thread is not actually, permanently held in the spreader.

It's possible the deal with the looper is that the orbit may or may not be set up correctly - It should pass very close to the needles both front and back, but I don't think it should deflect them that much.  The "orbit" describes the actual path the point of the looper takes around the needles in it's travel - It's sort of a oval-shaped path, and the orientation and timing of this path should be adjustable, with an eccentric timing crank, inside the machine - It should have match marks, that are shifted a tiny amount, forward or back, to change this timing.............. The thing is, that I can't tell you where it is on your Siruba - Probably in the upper arm, but more than that, I don't know - Sorry

The "point" of the looper is just the forward-most point of the thing, and the "needle center" is the center line of the needle shank - I don't know how else to describe it............. But, as I said, those numbers (and ALL the numbers I've quoted) are for the Kansai WX series, so beware, YMMV.

I think you have it threaded correctly, and the extra holes in the plate above the tensions may just be there so you can have the option of using them for certain thread types, or just to have a place to tie off different colors, so they'd be handy to change, or ...........?    I don't think you'd use more than one hole of each set, normally.

I wish I could help more, but I'm not a factory mechanic, and can only reference the relatively few machines I've worked on - There was a guy on here that IS a professional factory mechanic, with a lot of experience with many machine types, but he hasn't posted for a while now.   I'm just afraid of leading you in the wrong direction, so PLEASE just be sure that any adjustments you make are SMALL ones, and check every time by turning the machine over by hand, to see what is happening, before putting power to it.

Thanks trash. I threaded the entire machine tonight and it seemed to work. The upper spreader would not grab the thread properly, so I took that thread out just to test the machine. Not sure why...need to investigate more. Having a hell of a time adjusting the tensions, though. I rechecked all the threading of the machine and it looks good, it stitches well, just the tensions are not great. The needle threads seem to have loops in them, but if I tighten them up slightly, the material starts to create a ridge on the left or right side of the needle thread path. The lower looper thread is almost at the least amount of tension possible.

Where did you learn to set the tensions properly? Was there a guide or pictogram you used?

Another question, in this video here, they are able to continue stitching off the garment, stitches keep being formed perfectly...I tried doing that with mine and all the threads got cut and bunched up. Is there something special about that machine? Can you do that with your machine as well?

11 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I'll see if I can get our member, @gottaknow to read this topic. He is a machine mechanic in a major West coast sewing factory and works with all types of industrial sewing machines.

Thanks again, Wiz.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Sugarkryptonite

[trash treasure]

I really do hope someone with more knowledge than I, can weigh in on this - I feel like I'm getting a little out of my depth here - Thanks, Wiz.

The spreader could be a couple different issues - Are you actually placing the thread in the spreader before you start ?  You have to do that, as it often won't pick it up the first time, without a little help. It could also be the spreader being a little out of time.  Also, it looks like the machine still has a lot of lint in places - You should really blow it out with the air, pull it out with your tweezers, etc - Try and get it clean as possible.

On the tensions, the best advice I can give is to start with all tensions CLEAN and working properly, set them to a minimum tension to start with, and thread each one with a DIFFERENT COLOR thread, and then practice and experiment, to see what each tension does.

The machine SHOULD be able to sew off the sample, like in the video, if it's set up right - Our Kansai does it perfectly.   That itself could be affected by tension - I attached a couple photos of the stitch we get from the Kansai - Keep in mind, that it took some adjustment and tweaking, and experimentation to get there     -       Patience, Grasshopper .............

 

[Sugarkryptonite]

1 hour ago, trash treasure said:

I really do hope someone with more knowledge than I, can weigh in on this - I feel like I'm getting a little out of my depth here - Thanks, Wiz.

The spreader could be a couple different issues - Are you actually placing the thread in the spreader before you start ?  You have to do that, as it often won't pick it up the first time, without a little help. It could also be the spreader being a little out of time.  Also, it looks like the machine still has a lot of lint in places - You should really blow it out with the air, pull it out with your tweezers, etc - Try and get it clean as possible.

On the tensions, the best advice I can give is to start with all tensions CLEAN and working properly, set them to a minimum tension to start with, and thread each one with a DIFFERENT COLOR thread, and then practice and experiment, to see what each tension does.

The machine SHOULD be able to sew off the sample, like in the video, if it's set up right - Our Kansai does it perfectly.   That itself could be affected by tension - I attached a couple photos of the stitch we get from the Kansai - Keep in mind, that it took some adjustment and tweaking, and experimentation to get there     -       Patience, Grasshopper .............

 

Perfect thanks so much. I'll try more tonight. Hard to tell from the pictures since the threads are all the same color, but the needle threads don't have any small loops in them, is that correct?

[trash treasure]

What I showed is close to a perfect stitch with one of these machines - The threads should lay flat across the stitch, without pulling the sides together, and with no loops outside the outer stitch lines - That's what you should aim for.    

Like I suggested, set it up with different colors, to see what each tension does - And, BTW, make sure you're using overlock-type thread - These machines don't like to sew with regular twist thread - It doesn't need to be expensive stuff - The cheap "Maxi-Lock" brand works fine.

[Sugarkryptonite]

Hi again. I contacted Siruba with the machine serial # and model, and they sent me service manual pages, not sure if it's for my machine or not 100%, but it seems like it could be. I spent the evening tweaking all the small settings to match what was in the manual they sent me...the machine seems to work well...but only going slowly. If you try to go faster, it will start to skip stitches. Hard to tell what it is, but it looks like the spreader thread. I'm pretty sure I have the spreader set up almost perfectly, with it catching the thread every time, and moving to the left of the left needle the perfect amount (or maybe not...? Could be causing it).

The problem I see is that the manual states 5.0-5.5mm to the left of the left needle at it's furthest travel. If I set it like that, then when it moves back to the right, I need to adjust the spreader thread guide to be close in line with the spreader notch, but if I adjust the spreader thread guide to be above the notch when it's at its furthest right point, the spreader thread guide will hit the machine foot, so it literally cannot move to the left any more...I verified the spreader "travel", which is 17mm roughly, like they state in the manual. Pictured in orange below is where it contacts the foot when I try to move it further to the left.

Not sure to be honest. Also, in regards to the top spreader thread, Mine seems to be tight on one side, and looped on the other, crappy diagram to follow. Any ideas on that?

Do you have a second tension disc above the spreader thread guide for the spreader thread? It's a small one on mine, not sure how to adjust it exactly...or what its function is (pictured in red)

Edited May 7, 2019 by Sugarkryptonite

[Sugarkryptonite]

Wish this site didn't remove the "edit" button after so much time...anyway, I have an update. I messed around with the spreader adjustments a tiny bit more and I think it's better now. This is the best I could get the stitches. Hopefully you can help trash treasure or anyone else who knows something about coverstitch machines.

Top: 

Bottom:

Edited May 7, 2019 by Sugarkryptonite

[trash treasure]

Hi again -

Your stitch "looks" like there might not be enough tension on the spreader thread - The little tension unit is very similar to the one on the Kansai, and the the thread absolutely needs to feed through it , but with just a relatively light tension - Is that how you have it ?  In fact, the Kansai unit does not even adjust, the way yours does, just a fixed screw holding the discs - At any rate, the tension there should be light

The spreader thread should lay flat, with the back-and-forth runs lying next to each other, not being rolled over by the middle needle thread (maybe the center needle tension is also a bit tight ?), so be patient, and double check everything.

Are you using the same size thread for all 5 threads ? Hard to tell from your macro photos, but they need to be the same, for most uses - I believe you can set these machines up to use different threads for certain effects, but you shouldn't worry about that at this point.

One more thing - For starting out, you might check that the differential feed adjustment is set to "neutral" - Get it to sew reliably like that, before adjusting it for different fabrics - It's there to control seam stretch. If it's set way out, one way or the other, it might affect the sewing speed capability.

Also - On the spreader adjustments - Is there a spreader TIMING adjustment on your Siruba ? - There is on the Kansai, but it's an internal one, and you access it from inside the arm cover - Match marks on an eccentric, that you shift one way or the other. If someone in the past has messed with that, it could really frustrate you, trying to get it right with the external adjustments.  So see if your manual covers that.  If you do find the adjustment off, set it to the original factory setting, and then you'll have to go BACK, and re-set all the external adjustments again .

Aren't these machines FUN ?  Just endless hours of entertainment ................

Edited May 7, 2019 by trash treasure

[Sugarkryptonite]

On 5/7/2019 at 7:52 AM, trash treasure said:

Hi again -

Your stitch "looks" like there might not be enough tension on the spreader thread - The little tension unit is very similar to the one on the Kansai, and the the thread absolutely needs to feed through it , but with just a relatively light tension - Is that how you have it ?  In fact, the Kansai unit does not even adjust, the way yours does, just a fixed screw holding the discs - At any rate, the tension there should be light

The spreader thread should lay flat, with the back-and-forth runs lying next to each other, not being rolled over by the middle needle thread (maybe the center needle tension is also a bit tight ?), so be patient, and double check everything.

Are you using the same size thread for all 5 threads ? Hard to tell from your macro photos, but they need to be the same, for most uses - I believe you can set these machines up to use different threads for certain effects, but you shouldn't worry about that at this point.

One more thing - For starting out, you might check that the differential feed adjustment is set to "neutral" - Get it to sew reliably like that, before adjusting it for different fabrics - It's there to control seam stretch. If it's set way out, one way or the other, it might affect the sewing speed capability.

Also - On the spreader adjustments - Is there a spreader TIMING adjustment on your Siruba ? - There is on the Kansai, but it's an internal one, and you access it from inside the arm cover - Match marks on an eccentric, that you shift one way or the other. If someone in the past has messed with that, it could really frustrate you, trying to get it right with the external adjustments.  So see if your manual covers that.  If you do find the adjustment off, set it to the original factory setting, and then you'll have to go BACK, and re-set all the external adjustments again .

Aren't these machines FUN ?  Just endless hours of entertainment ................

Thanks for your help, once again. Yes I have the thread going through the small "tension" unit.

Threads all seem to be the same size, the numbers on the spools seem to match, hard to tell as I did not buy them, they came with my overlocker machine. 

I'm not quite sure I understand the differential feed numbers on the machine; the settings go from 0-4. I'm guessing that that might be the ratio between the front and back feed dogs, for exmaple 1:0, 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, 1:4, but for some reason, "neutral" where the feed dogs move at a similar speed, seems to be in the "2" position...

I was able to get the spreader thread to lay nicely, similar to yours, but the backside is a different story...sometimes loops on the needle threads, sometimes not (threading is correct, I triple and quadruple checked it), I was able to get a decent stitch like yours, but it took A LOT of fiddling, is that normal? I've seen videos online of a guy using a machine, and just throwing in different thickness fabric, stretch, not stretch, and the machine stitches perfectly every time. For some reason my right needle thread will sometimes make loops half way through stitches, and sometimes not, tension unrelated, not sure why...threading seems correct in all the proper holes, no hangups anywhere...tried different threads, same problem.

I will have to see about the spreader timing adjustment. I don't think the person who owned the machine ever used the spreader at all, as it was in a small case along with the set screw, but I could be wrong. Also, as the spreader is moving backwards, from left to right, it seems to catch very slightly on the needle threads and creates a small pinging noise as if you're stringing a guitar string when it's tight, if you know what I mean. Is that normal?

For example I tried on a piece of supplex (stretch type fabric a lot of athletic wear is made from), and then fabric would pucker along the length of the stitches, wihch leads me to believe the needle threads were too tight, so I backed them off, but then get loops on the back side,  tried adjusting the looper thread tighter, but the adjustment on the looper and spreader are very slight...at one point I even had the tension all the way tight, but backed it off because I didn't want the thread to break, and even then it wasn't helping very much. Is that a point where differential feed must be used?

Also, what is your routine for adjusting the machine? Is it looper, then spreader, then 3 needle threads? They don't say in the manual at all what should be adjusted first.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Sugarkryptonite