Too much torque?

[sempersam]

I have a singer 111g156 that I've been modifying to meet my needs. Eventually I'll switch to a servo motor but for now it's a clutch motor(3450rpm).  I made a speed reducer for it. The motor pulley is a 2in, it drives a 10in pulley that then drops to a 3speed pulley that came off an old craftsman lathe it goes to a matching 3 spd pulley that is mated to the hand wheel on the machine.  I like my speed(s).. Now to the question,  can I create too much torque? I don't want to damage my machine? 

[nylonRigging]

If Material is not to thick, for the Needle's length and plunge to make a proper stitch . Along with the material sewn is soft enough for your needle to pass threw .
Then No Not going to damage your machine . And machine is not over stressed with you adding more Torque LB/ft energy behind the needle plunge .

your ( Singer 111 ) , Having To much torque . .  look at it from the side of thought that every once in a while everyone is going to have a BAD Needle strike from deflection . The Needle meeting the ' immovable object ' your Dogs or Throat Plate . You cant get much more sudden abuse than that with the machines stitch cycle .
The damage to the Machine 99% of the time is only shattered/busted Needle . Also, with just shoving the Needles shaft rod Up, just knocked out of timing little bit .
.

Edited April 24, 2019 by nylonRigging

[mikesc]

Without knowing the diameters of the first 3 speed pulley discs, and the diameters of the second 3 speed pulley discs..it is impossible to calculate..and thus impossible to say if you risk creating too much torque, or not , because to calculate the potential torque figures, both of these groups of variables have to be known.

Edited April 24, 2019 by mikesc

[sempersam]

2 hours ago, mikesc said:

Without knowing the diameters of the first 3 speed pulley discs, and the diameters of the second 3 speed pulley discs..it is impossible to calculate..and thus impossible to say if you risk creating too much torque, or not , because to calculate the potential torque figures, both of these groups of variables have to be known.

3450rpm motor with 2 in pulley to 10 in pulley, then my choices are 4 to 2 in, 3.5 to 3 in, 3 to 3.5, or 2 to 4 in.. 

[sempersam]

2 hours ago, nylonRigging said:

If Material is not to thick, for the Needle's length and plunge to make a proper stitch . Along with the material sewn is soft enough for your needle to pass threw .
Then No Not going to damage your machine . And machine is not over stressed with you adding more Torque LB/ft energy behind the needle plunge .

your ( Singer 111 ) , Having To much torque . .  look at it from the side of thought that every once in a while everyone is going to have a BAD Needle strike from deflection . The Needle meeting the ' immovable object ' your Dogs or Throat Plate . You cant get much more sudden abuse than that with the machines stitch cycle .
The damage to the Machine 99% of the time is only shattered/busted Needle . Also, with just shoving the Needles shaft rod Up, just knocked out of timing little bit .
.

the machine seems to run fine with this setup but the torque has most definitely increased. it has noticeably more power. I assumed it was okay but I have also been hesitant to put the machine though its paces since its ability far surpasses my skillset. thanks for the response I'll take her for a test ride this evening.

[nylonRigging]

3 minutes ago, sempersam said:

the machine seems to run fine with this setup but the torque has most definitely increased. it has noticeably more power. I assumed it was okay but I have also been hesitant to put the machine though its paces since its ability far surpasses my skillset. thanks for the response I'll take her for a test ride this evening.

That good . All you need is a few hours behind it to get a feel for machine and get comfortable . Gear reduction is great especially if you marry it to a servo . I have it both ways servo and clutch motor on machines . I have a big Clutch electric and It slowed down with good torque from a dead stop , but only way to change speeds is changing out a different combo of pulley sizes  . Servo is most definitely give you a huge range of RPM choice to select and work with when sitting behind your machine .

.

 

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

3,450RPM is considered high speed sewing motor, 1,725RPM is considered low speed.  

If you put a 2" pulley on a 3,450 motor for a walking foot...it will still be too fast.  It will have very poor low end speed control.  It's not about 'power'.  A 1/3, 1/2 or 3/4 horse power motor are going to have the same level of control.  When we used to put only clutch motors on walking feet machines, when we made a mistake by putting the wrong speed motor it was very apparent.

[sempersam]

On 4/26/2019 at 8:33 AM, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

3,450RPM is considered high speed sewing motor, 1,725RPM is considered low speed.  

If you put a 2" pulley on a 3,450 motor for a walking foot...it will still be too fast.  It will have very poor low end speed control.  It's not about 'power'.  A 1/3, 1/2 or 3/4 horse power motor are going to have the same level of control.  When we used to put only clutch motors on walking feet machines, when we made a mistake by putting the wrong speed motor it was very apparent.

I didn't know that.  I probably could have made a 1725rpm motor crawl, but if it had a low spd motor on it too begin with I probably wouldn't be able to convince myself to buy a servo motor when I redo the table next month. It turns out that this is the same model machine that my Dad learned to sew on in the Marine Corps. 

 

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Just as another point of reference, based off of the speed chart, you can see that a 1725RPM motor with the correct handwheel and motor pulley combination can get up to and beyond maximum speed of a regular walking foot.  With the servo motors coming on strong this chart is becoming old news.

 

Speed Chart for Pulley Selections.pdf

[sempersam]

On 4/29/2019 at 6:47 AM, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

Just as another point of reference, based off of the speed chart, you can see that a 1725RPM motor with the correct handwheel and motor pulley combination can get up to and beyond maximum speed of a regular walking foot.  With the servo motors coming on strong this chart is becoming old news.

 

Speed Chart for Pulley Selections.pdf

thanks for the chart, it will be very usefull.

[sempersam]

On 4/24/2019 at 1:41 PM, sempersam said:

I have a singer 111g156 that I've been modifying to meet my needs. Eventually I'll switch to a servo motor but for now it's a clutch motor(3450rpm).  I made a speed reducer for it. The motor pulley is a 2in, it drives a 10in pulley that then drops to a 3speed pulley that came off an old craftsman lathe it goes to a matching 3 spd pulley that is mated to the hand wheel on the machine.  I like my speed(s).. Now to the question,  can I create too much torque? I don't want to damage my machine? 

Well I broke down and did it, I bought a servo motor and I am in love. Running it through my homemade speed reducer (3" pulley on servo into an 8" pulley, then a 2" pulley out to the stock handwheel), I can adjust from extremely slow to faster than I'll ever use and it has enough power to cleanly sew 2 layers of 12 oz veg tan cleanly. Now time to play with needle/ thread size. There seems to be several good posts on that topic already in the archives so time to go browse some more. Thank you all for the info/advise/encouragement