Kj86

Help to ID English saddle “France premier”

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Hey folks I was given a saddle to restore and keep/flip. 

It only has the makers plates “France” “premiere”   I am not up to date with English saddles so I am at a loss.

it needs the sweat flaps replaced as they were cut off, a re-dye and good condition 

i just want to know if it’s worth putting any money into it just chuck it down the tip? 

I would like to atleast try and break even if I sell it with materials and time put into it.

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98411ED1-09FE-4521-9E96-73FA983DE5E2.jpeg

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It isn't "English" it is French made..the manufacturer is /was called either "premiere" or "France"..( it is unclear which, my money would be on the brand being "France" as it has the ® next to the word..in French this designates a "trademark" or a "marque déposé"* ) there are a couple of posts in French "horsey" fora asking about the saddles ( French for saddle is selle, but selle has other meanings, one of which is the name of a breed of horse, another is human faecal matter ..so be careful how you ask French people about "selle" or "selles" :)
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selle
saddle / selle images
https://www.google.com/search?q=selle&hl=en-FR&gbv=1&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3k4qhkfDhAhXS8OAKHbWPAaUQ_AUIBQ

HTH

Btw Selle is pronounced as if it were written Sel..rhymes with the name Mel..as in Gibson.
Whereas the word which is written Sel..and rhymes with Mel is French for "salt"

*re the ® strictly speaking , legally in France the ® has no meaning nor legal value, the use of it is an anglophone countries "mark", but a large number of French companies and businesses do use it..mine included , for trademarks that we have registered in France.

Edited by mikesc
typos

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I have a German made English style riding saddle from the 1970's. I suspect this one is even older. A saddler told me the older saddles are far superior to the modern ones, as you can add stuffing to them to help them fit the horse's back better. With modern ones, these alterations aren't possible.

Edit: Selle Francais is a breed of horse from France. It literally means "French saddle horse". I'm only aware of the one meaning for "selle".  Sale, however, means 'dirty' and I think that's where the poop reference comes in....  Bing translator only gives the one translation for 'selle', and that is 'saddle'. 

Edited by Sheilajeanne

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The comments in many French "horsey" forums concur with SheilaJeanne's saddler, everyone seems to say that the quality of the leather used was better "before", and that the saddle construction was more amenable to minor alteration and adjustments to the padding, some are restoring / using ones made in the 20s.
This page ( calculator of the "value" of various saddles ) might be of interest to some.
https://www.equirodi.com/argus-selles-cheval/hermes.htm

as might these
https://www.hermes.com/fr/fr/equitation/selles/
https://www.tosoniselleriashop.com/fr/selles/selles-anglaises.html
https://www.au-coeur-des-chevaux.com/l-equitation.php?page=l-equitation-le-materiel-et-l-equipement-la-selle-et-ses-accessoires-la-selle-type-anglaise

I find it interesting how many Hermès saddles ( which are reckoned here to be "expensive" ) one could buy for the cost of an Hermès sac :)

Edited by mikesc

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For those of you not familiar with the equestrian world, yes, folks, Hermes makes saddles as well as high-end handbags! :yeah: And like their handbags, the saddles are VERY high-end! Though how much of that is due to the Hermes name, I'm not sure. A $10,000 saddle is not going to make you a better rider than a $2,000 saddle if you don't put the work into it!

As the old adage goes, wet saddle blankets make good horses and horsemen/women! 

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13 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

I have a German made English style riding saddle from the 1970's. I suspect this one is even older. A saddler told me the older saddles are far superior to the modern ones, as you can add stuffing to them to help them fit the horse's back better. With modern ones, these alterations aren't possible.

Edit: Selle Francais is a breed of horse from France. It literally means "French saddle horse". I'm only aware of the one meaning for "selle".  Sale, however, means 'dirty' and I think that's where the poop reference comes in....  Bing translator only gives the one translation for 'selle', and that is 'saddle'. 

I would be agreeing that this a older saddle it seems to have the old heavy wood and steel tree and from doing a strain test is still in excellent condition no squeaks or creeks! 

The stuff in the channels is still very smooth so now sure if it has been restuffed in recent years.

compared to a few other saddles sitting in my shed this one does appear to be more superior even though it’s in poor condition 

will just have a play around and see how I go with it

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Yes, I definitely think it's worth a shot. It looks like a well-made all purpose saddle, the type that can be used for pleasure riding, jumping or beginner dressage, so it should be quite marketable once it's fixed up.

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Why don't you take it apart and have better at and see if its worth doing plus as you are taking it apart there may be some techniques in the construction of the saddle you may not have seen that maybe useful to you at a later date that's what i do a lot.

Hope this helps 

JCUK

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