veg tanned stretching and gluing question

[beltbuckles]

so which order do you guys do the gusset for a bag or briefcase as far as gluing and stretching the leather...        if i was to make a briefcase or bag that has a "U" shape gusset on both sides... do you guys just keep the leather dry and try to stretch it, and glue it?     

 

do you case the leather and then glue it?   

 

do you put the contact cement on first and then get the leather wet?

 

if there is a link or people have experience doing it well and consistantly, please help.  Thanks

 

[beltbuckles]

as a side note,, this is after i dye the piece so i don't want to get the leather too wet to discolor the leather

 

[RockyAussie]

@beltbuckles I think a picture of the type of construction would help a lot. Are you wanting to take the gusset all the way around in one piece with the edges facing out to be later burnished or edged? Although I have done it this way at times it is a lot easier and without a lot of skiving and twisting if done in the 3 piece method as used in these bags below.

These following pictures a just some from a prototype one I was working on which later turned into the black one above instead. They may help to give you a better idea of the assembly and construction.

This one shows the edges of the gusset and front and back glued and ready to attach.

Shown here before any edge coat was done.

Hope that is of some help

Brian

 

[beltbuckles]

thankyou for your answer!    and the pictures

 

when you apply contact cement to a gusset, is the gusset completely dry? or is it a bit wet to be able to stretch it better?  ( i know you have to let the glue dry  before pressing the leather items together)

[johnv474]

Not OP but most cements recommend that the leather be clean and dry.  If you need it moistened I would dampen from the outside all over but on the inside everywhere but where the cement is.

[beltbuckles]

1 hour ago, johnv474 said:

Not OP but most cements recommend that the leather be clean and dry.  If you need it moistened I would dampen from the outside all over but on the inside everywhere but where the cement is.

thank you!    i feel like its a tough situation because if the leather is wet, i can stretch it better, but then i shouldn't glue it  (until it dries)

[RockyAussie]

4 hours ago, beltbuckles said:

thankyou for your answer!    and the pictures

 

when you apply contact cement to a gusset, is the gusset completely dry? or is it a bit wet to be able to stretch it better?  ( i know you have to let the glue dry  before pressing the leather items together)

With this form of construction there is no need for any wetting or stretching. This helps a lot when you want pieces to go where you want consistently.

If for some reason you are hell bent on wetting and gluing you can do it somewhat by gluing first then wetting and waiting for it to get nearly dry then warming the glue area up with a heat gun and then attaching together. Only reason I ever did this was when I wanted to stitch soles on shoes and with the hard leather you get in this situation it helps a lot. Are you using a sewing machine to stitch this? It would help a lot if you could show a picture of what it is you are trying to do first.

[beltbuckles]

so i have part side parts and a big rectangle part that gets sown on the bottom    and sides of the gusset  (then i have a cover on top but that is not in the picture)   i would like to be able to glue it in place, but sometimes it is hard to stretch the leather enough when it is dry so i wet it a bit to help.   

 

both edges will be facing out to burnish later

i could get it wet, and clip it in place, then glue later on when it dries... is that the best option?

 

i would be using a cylinder arm walking foot  singer 153 (B?) clone      consew 227b i think

 

i used similar ounce (mm) leather last time and it came out bad... so i went and got some thinker  leather for the main, and thinner for the sides since i have had better luck with  that in the past

Edited June 18, 2019 by beltbuckles

[RockyAussie]

So you are wanting to put a round base on the bottom like in this motorcycle tool bag?

Or more like the base of this briefcase?

Do you have a skiving machine?

[RockyAussie]

I just realised that I should have shown the motor cycle tool bag before I stuck the end in it.

After thinking about it further I think you may be going for something along this sort of gusset below perhaps. Whether it is folded edge or not does not matter.

If this is the shape then the gussets I do start off cut out like the pieces above the bag in this picture.

The bottom V is then stitched like this and trimmed close then tapped down to set the open shape.

 

 

 

 

[beltbuckles]

that bottom bag is very similar to what im making... does the v trim really help??  i have made some in the past without the v trim.  

 

i was thinking about making a "V" trim for  like laptop bags that  have a sharp "U" shaped gusset at the bottom compared to a larger wider ones with the purses that i've made

[RockyAussie]

20 minutes ago, beltbuckles said:

does the v trim really help??

Yes I use it fairly often and I never need to do any wetting which would damage the glazed skins either. Pics below. That is not to say that you cant make a jig to do it with wet moulding/forming techniques but that normally would slow the process down as you really want every thing dry before the gluing and stitching stages.

Are you going to have a bottom like this on a briefcase?

[BarkyKelpie]

@RockyAussie, thank you for sharing - I had an idea rattling around in my head that I couldn't work out how to do, you've answered a question I hadn't asked yet! 

[beltbuckles]

54 minutes ago, BarkyKelpie said:

@RockyAussie, thank you for sharing - I had an idea rattling around in my head that I couldn't work out how to do, you've answered a question I hadn't asked yet! 

are you refering to cutting a v in the round part of the side of the purse?

 

or just when to glue and when to wetmold

 

8 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Yes I use it fairly often and I never need to do any wetting which would damage the glazed skins either. Pics below. That is not to say that you cant make a jig to do it with wet moulding/forming techniques but that normally would slow the process down as you really want every thing dry before the gluing and stitching stages.

Are you going to have a bottom like this on a briefcase?

 

i was thinking about cutting a v... i did it without a "V" but i want to be able to do it consistantly... there are some other designs that i was thinking about doing as well.. i may try one like the 3 parts of the gusset like you showed in the beginning parts...  also that motorcycle bag is georgeous!!!

[BarkyKelpie]

37 minutes ago, beltbuckles said:

are you refering to cutting a v in the round part of the side of the purse?

or just when to glue and when to wetmold

 

Neither, really - I'm very new to leatherwork but I have done bits and pieces with fabric, I was having trouble translating what I'd do with cloth and internal seams into what I needed to do with leather with external seams, it was really useful to see it all laid out and a few different styles too. 

Been agonising over it a couple of weeks, but the three-part gusset in Rocky's first post is gonna do just what I'm after. So cheers, Rocky, 'cause I was about ready to chuck a tooled panel and a couple of leather straps on a cloth bag and call it good! 

[RockyAussie]

1 minute ago, BarkyKelpie said:

Neither, really - I'm very new to leatherwork but I have done bits and pieces with fabric, I was having trouble translating what I'd do with cloth and internal seams into what I needed to do with leather with external seams, it was really useful to see it all laid out and a few different styles too. 

Been agonising over it a couple of weeks, but the three-part gusset in Rocky's first post is gonna do just what I'm after. So cheers, Rocky, 'cause I was about ready to chuck a tooled panel and a couple of leather straps on a cloth bag and call it good! 

Ha Ha ...glad you caught that in time then. It is a a very simple lay out pattern that is easy to work out how to make the measurements for and alter longer or shorter or higher etc. Only thing to watch for is if using a cylinder or post machine is to make sure you get the gusset set back enough to get the needle to reach where you want. On mine I can get away with 8mm from the bobbin case to the needle but that means I have to add at least another 3mm to the pattern corner. I generally go with about 12 to 14mm from the edge as a rule. Have fun

[RockyAussie]

1 hour ago, beltbuckles said:

also that motorcycle bag is georgeous!!!

Thanks, The end design is something I came up with to 1. signify a long road look over the handle bars but 2. the customer is a barrister and that to me represents the scales of justice as well. He loves it