DIY Nubuck?

[MagnificentHonky]

I have recently developed an interest in leather working. Outside of researching various things, though, I haven't actually begun to persue the interest, yet. (I generally start all new hobbies with a research phase, before I spend the first cent. Easier on the wallet, that way.)

Anyway, a project that I'm looking to do, involves nubuck, which I understand to be top grain leather that has been treated to resemble suede.

I've gone digging through the interwebs, trying to find out the process for creating nubuck, but all I've found is the vague statement that nubuck is "sanded and buffed to create a suede like appearance". Anything after that is diverted to instructions on making homemade cleaner for boots... Not what I was looking for.

So the questions are:

Is the sanding and buffing done pre-tan or post tan?

Is a special tanning process required?

What grits of sandpaper would be used for the sanding?

What is the buffing process? And what tools and buffing compounds (if any) are used?

If all this is done pre-tan, I'm not much interested in doing it, at the moment. I'm a trucker, and am away from home for weeks at a time, so tanning is not something that I have time for. Also, I don't have convenient access to a cow, or a place for an entire cows worth of meat. However, I would still be interested in the knowledge. I collect random knowledge, anyway.

On the other hand, if the nubucking process is a post-tan exercise, I would be interested in trying it out. It would be personally gratifying.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Have a great weekend!

[chrisash]

Not sure where you are on the Earth, but Nubuck is sold in many leather places already done, you can often buy a shoulder as the smallest size about 10 square foot or a complete side, all the ones i have seen are in a natural light tan colour but there may be other colours. The only thing you have to do is cut out the design and sew together if you are in the USA then this link may assist you

https://products.weaverleathersupply.com/search?ts=custom&w=nubuck

[MagnificentHonky]

Thank you for the link.  (I am in the U.S., incidentally) Assuming the production process is more tedious than I want to deal with, buying nubuck already done isn't necessarily out of the question.

But... I still really want to know how the stuff is made. Sometimes, I like to do projects, just because I can. Or, to see IF I can. My Grandfather and his brother were the same way; they both made stuff that made you say, "Interesting project, I see the skill... But, why?" 

The larger project is a trunk restoration. My wife bought this old, 150 year old trunk (give or take) that's covered in what appears to be a nubuck material. The nubuck has designs burned into it. The nubuck is also dry rotted, cracked, and a panel is missing. Looking into trunks, it appears that paper, leather, and metal were all fairly common coverings, but this nubuck covering is rather unique.  The coverings aside from metal tend to be destroyed over time, and many trunk restorations leave the trunk "naked"; which is probably why I haven't found a similar trunk. I want my trunk to remain period correct, and keep it's original look.

Certainly, I can't be the only one that's ever wanted to take a piece of leather, and turn it into a piece of nubuck. I'm beginning to get the impression that this is some big secret, and the Area 51 file on nubuck creation hasn't been declassified, yet.

[MagnificentHonky]

Wow, so no one knows, huh? That's rather disappointing...

[TonyRV2]

You may as well be asking Horween its tanning process for creating their famous pullup leathers. It's akin to asking a BBQ champion the recipe for their BBQ sauce. It just aint gonna happen. Most tanning and finishing processes are well guarded company secrets.

That said, at least you have a starting point knowing that Nubuck is made by sanding and buffing the grain side of the leather. I doubt that doing it without machinery is going to yield a very uniform result, but if your hell bent on doing it then its going to take experimentation on your part. The main caveat is this...by the time you pick up a hide or three of veg tanned leather and start experimenting with it, you may as well have just bought the Nubuck hide to begin with.

[bikermutt07]

Nubuck is a chrome tanned, sometimes veg retanned leather. It's not something you need to worry about making yourself. Look to Acadia leather for some sides. They have many deals on pull-up leathers (most with a buffed surface like nubuck, but with color change on the wrinkles) on Instagram. 

 

Here is some form of crazy horse I got from them.

[MagnificentHonky]

Hmm. So it is akin to the Coke formula and Area 51 files, lol.

It's not necessarily that I'm hellbent for making my own, out of some perceived necessity.  It's kind of like those guys on YouTube that build stuff, using old school hand tools (as opposed to modern power tools), or that guy who does the primitive technology channel, or the guys who crumple up a sheet of aluminium foil and transform it into a perfectly mirrored sphere.  Or the people who build overly complicated machines, whose sole purpose is to unplug themselves from the wall, once plugged in. The point is less the finished project, and more the sense of accomplishment.  The other thing, at least for me, is that unanswered questions just drive me nuts, lol. Were I a cat, curiosity would have killed me 9 times over, many moons ago.

To duplicate the trunk covering, though, I now wonder if using Nubuck is wise; the original material has designs burned into it, and it's my understanding that burning chrome tan produces a rather toxic smoke. So maybe I'd be better off using the backside of veg-tan, or something else.

Well, maybe I'll just start experimenting, or maybe not. Just depends on my available time, I suppose

Thank you, both, for shedding a little light.

@Biker: That's some nice looking material. It wouldn't suit for the trunk, but I could think of several projects for which it would be downright spiffy.

[chrisash]

Found this if any help

https://ozapato.com/leather-vs-nubuck-vs-suede-what-difference/

I would try gently moving the leather against a bench sander very lightly and feeding the leather at a constant feed rate and need a quite fine sandpaper to make the contact area a consistent wear

Basically the opposite to RockyAussie's skiving method using the outside of the leather rather than the inside

Never tried but just a suggestion

[MagnificentHonky]

Thank you. 

I figured that the sandpaper grit would have much to do with it, along with applied pressure.  I also figured that intial experimentation would probably be best done on smaller pieces; no use destroying an entire side, in finding another wrong way to do it, lol (to badly paraphrase Thomas Edison, in his quote on creating the lightbulb...)

I intend to buy a package of larger leather scraps, to play with burning, stamping, and carving techniques, so sanding and buffing on those, won't be a big deal.  Though, that article implied that the texturing of the nubuck was part of the tanning process, so I'm not going to be holding my breath on discovering a nubuck creation method.  And, it's fine if I don't.  It will be disappointing, but it won't ruin my day.

After poking through this forum, and watching a bunch of YouTube how-to's, I'm pretty excited about getting into leatherwork, even if I never do discover the secrets of nubuck creation.

[clivel]

Going back 40 odd years to my student days, when I spent a few months working in a tannery, my recollection is that nubuck was the result of a mechanical process that buffs the grain side of the leather. I don't recall that any special tanning process was used, but I think they mostly used chrome tanned.

The buffing machine consisted of a metal wheel about the size of a car tyre with a smooth surface. One of my jobs was to refresh the surface of the wheel. It was coated with an appropriate glue, and then slowly rotated by hand while emery powder was sprinkled on it forming an even coating. For nubuck, a fine grade of emery would have been used. Once dry, the wheel was rotated at high speed vertically at 90 degrees to the operator. There was a wooden platten in front of the wheel controlled by a pedal which pressed the leather draped over the platten against the wheel.

If your trunk is 150 years old, then it most certainly cannot be nubuck, which to the best of my knowledge originated in the 20th century. More likely it is 'split', the bottom layer of leather after the tanned hide is split. This is rougher than either nubuck or suede. Suede is simply buffed split.

Clive

[Riem]

27 minutes ago, clivel said:

If your trunk is 150 years old, then it most certainly cannot be nubuck, which to the best of my knowledge originated in the 20th century. More likely it is 'split', the bottom layer of leather after the tanned hide is split. This is rougher than either nubuck or suede. Suede is simply buffed split. 

Then there's also the possibility that the nubuck might have been a later addition or attempt at restoration... IMHO, if the wood is solid and does not need the leather for a specific reason, I'd recommend not covering it again... That is, given the fact that I have not seen the piece.

[MagnificentHonky]

@Clive: I appreciate the insight.

Actually, you're last paragraph kinda mirrors what I was saying to my wife, yesterday evening. The article that was linked, a couple of posts above, suggested that Nubuck really wasn't a thing, until the 1930's. So, the notion that the material is actually "split" does make a little more sense. And, my research of trunks of the era indicates a somewhat "slapped-together" method of production, using the cheapest materials and labor available, so split would make sense, in that regard, as well.

@Riem: This trunk is pretty well beat and neglected. Also, it came from a local estate sale.  I see no sign that this thing has ever been apart.  The folks native to my area, had they been inclined to do anything of a restorative nature, it would have been stripped of its covering, slathered in whatever paint was closest, and possibly had some metal handles bolted to it. That's just how those folks operate. As it is, until whoever owned it died, that thing probably didn't see daylight for six decades.

At any rate, that leather material with its designs burned into it, is rather unique. My wife thinks that it's great, so it must be duplicated.  And, too, I want to restore the thing to a period-correct appearance.  Bare wood (or painted, or varnished) would not be period correct. When new, they all had some sort of covering. A cheap option would have been something akin to wall paper.  Leather was a popular choice, though sueded leather was rare, apparently. The other option was a metal-clad trunk. From what I've seen, the metal cladding was similar to tin ceilings; though I imagine that a very plain and utilitarian metal clad trunk was also available.

I think that Clive is right; the leather material is a split.

When I get home in a few weeks, I may start another thread on the trunk, and include some pictures.

**************************************

On a side note, I ordered a large leather tool kit, a pyrography kit, and a 5lb bag of medium-large leather scraps, today.  So, some fun awaits, when I arrive home. (Feel like a 5 year old awaiting Christmas, I do, lol)

[bikermutt07]

It may not be of much help, but there is a company in New England that supports the trunk folks with hardware and such.

https://www.brettunsvillage.com/

I have never dealt with them though.

[MagnificentHonky]

Actually, lol, I just placed an order with Brettuns Village. I stumbled upon them, in my initial trunk research, and browsing the rest of their site is what kind of sparked my interest in leather.

Once I've recieved my order, and had a chance to use the stuff, I'll post an opinion.  I did send them an email in regard to trunk specific topics; they were informative in their response, so I figured that I'd spend a little money with them.

Thank you for the link.

[johnv474]

Based on my experience, I would say that a person can take a smooth grain leather and create a nubuck-like nap with a belt sander.  I have sanded leather with everything from 24 grit to 4000 grit.  I'd say nubuck is somewhere in the 100 to 300 grit range, and probably on the lower end of that range.

 

They might actually use somethibg abrasive but not a sandpaper, such as a spinning sanding drum covered in (oh, I don't know)... nylon canvas, for example.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by johnv474

[BrokenArrow]

I ran a test last night with 220 grit sandpaper on vegetable tanned leather (hand sanding). I was very pleased with the results and will be using this method on a nubuck handbag I'm building. Hope this helps - it's not hard, but it is tedious. If you have more time than money, this is a suitable method to create nubuck with veg tan leather. I've not tried it on chrome tanned leather yet.

[MagnificentHonky]

Good to know.  It seems, to me, that sanding smaller pieces would be preferable on projects that don't call for a lot of Nubuck or sueded material; when ordering a larger quantity, and having to wait for it to show up, just wouldn't justify the time or expense.  

I am delighted, in any case, to have a starting point.  Now, I just need the time to play with it.

Thank you to everyone who provided input; it is much appreciated.