Members Onidori Posted January 19, 2020 Members Report Posted January 19, 2020 ONIDORI The problem with buying a starter kit is that it will almost certainly contain some things you will not use, and there will be some things you do want that it does not have. The solution to that issue is to have a kit that covers every eventuality, and thus it simply becomes ludicrously big and expensive. It would end up being like a whole workshop full of kit that most people take years to acquire. And that is true of most hobbies, activities, and pastimes, such as the model making that I do, or as a friend who does stone carving & small scale sculpture has found out. Besides, choosing and shopping for tools is all part of the interest and fun! For example, I started with a Tandy beginners kit that contained an overstitch wheel that I've never used........the 4-in-1 awl which I quickly realised wasn't very good, and I had to replace it.......... a stitching groover which I used for a while, but no longer as I mark my stitching lines with dividers. However it did not have an edge beveler, which is more or less essential, and I had to buy separately. You will probably need to but stitching chisels as well. Oh yes, I've also replaced the Tandy needles with John James 002 All I can suggest is that you follow the advice already given, and that is to look at relevant videos on YT and Threads on this forum, and buy items as you need them. Though this need not mean just buying one at a time; strike a balance between buying a few tools that you know you need and a whole load of tools that you might not Besides Tandy and Weaver, have a look at Rocky Mountains Leather Supply, they have an interesting selection of tools and thread, and also sell John James needles, which are considered the best It would help if you could give us some idea of the sort of things that you would like to make. Certainly, if you are thinking of spending $600, I would definitely give it some serious thought, and perhaps make up your own list then compare it to the kit I do plan on following the given advice and piece mealing my tool kits together, what im trying to find out is who to buy FROM, and what brand of tools are worth it, or what are junk. What im asking is, do i avoid Tandy's tools because they are garbage? Or are they good? Are Weaver's tools better quality than Tandy's? (Which seems to be what im picking up, Weavers tools tend to be better made and more geared toward the professional, while Tandy's are more for the beginner). Avoid both altogether and go with a different brand? Thats the information im trying to gather. Not what do i buy, but WHO do i buy them from? What tool manufacturers are the best to invest my money in to (build and material quality)? Quote
Members chrisash Posted January 19, 2020 Members Report Posted January 19, 2020 Be real, what one person likes another will dislike, you can go out and spend all your money on the most expensive tools and find you dont like them, some are first class and others maybe living on their name Nobody makes garbage tools anymore, most regardless of price are now made using CNC machines and the finishing is the only difference in price for a lot of them, I you want a independent master craftsman's view look up Nigel Armitage's video's on youtube Quote Mi omputer is ot ood at speeling , it's not me
Members zuludog Posted January 19, 2020 Members Report Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) Hello ONIDORI, and welcome to the fun!. I think you're now at the stage where you will just have to settle on something, and learn as you go along. Here is my suggested shopping list which would be a good start for most leatherwork items, though of course other people, including yourself, may have different ideas. All 3 suppliers are quite good enough for the beginner, and beyond From ROCKY MOUNTAIN LEATHER SUPPLY Economy wing divider Economy bone folder Economy leather burnisher Vergez Blanchard medium awl - but see later Thread - 0,6mm Ritza/Tiger, 25m; Twist Masterfil linen; Twist 0,45mm polybraid polyester. There are lots of makes of thread on the market, trying a few will enable you to decide which you like John James L3912 needles size 002 WEAVER LEATHER Diamond stitching chisel set, 4mm spacing TANDY Scratch awl 3217 Craftool edge beveler size 2. This is cheap, simple, easy to use and easy to sharpen. Once you've gained experience with his you could make your own decision on anything better/more expensive Stitching awl 31218. Even if you use stitching chisels you will need a diamond awl sooner or later. This and the V -G are two styles, you decide which you might like Safety beveler 3001. Cheap and easy to start with. You might eventually want to upgrade to a dedicated skiving knife, or a Japanese leather knife, or an English style leather paring knife - Search Google and YouTube Wool daubers 3445 Ruler 3606 Fiebings Edge Kote and Pro Dye Any of these suppliers, plus your local craft & hardware store - Wood/hide/plastic mallet Cutting mat, the usual green thing; get the biggest you can manage A block of beeswax Utility/box cutter type knife. There are lots of different knives for leather, but this is cheap, simple, and easy to use The key to good leatherwork is to have razor sharp tools; Search YouTube and the section on this forum. You can buy a strop, but they're very easy to make from oddments of wood & leather. Treat yourself to some proper stropping compound; it's not expensive and a small block will last for ages Leather! Bellies and splits are the cheapest to learn on, and OK for small, simple projects But more than anything, watch YT videos on the items toy would like to make, to see how other people do the work, and the tools they use Edited January 19, 2020 by zuludog Quote
Members billybopp Posted January 19, 2020 Members Report Posted January 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Onidori said: Honestly, i plan on dabbling in/making everything and anything. Basically whatever i want or need that would require leather, or whatever i could sell. I realize that everyone says that at first, but its something ive been planning on at least experimenting with for a while. Specifically at this moment, im going to focus on making knife sheaths of varying types, belts, holsters, axe head covers, axe shaft protectors, pouches, bags & purses, wallets, coasters, etc. Eventually, id like to expand in to making clothing (especially period correct/reproduction clothing), jackets, vests, book covers/bindings, decorative pieces, vests, and even vehicle trim. Im not exactly clear on what you mean by "tooling", though. One way to think about leather work is in two broad categories. Tooling/carving/stamping is more about decorative work, and could be 100% decorative such as a wall hanging - or added decoration to another "more practical" project. The other broad category is more about constructing items, which could be totally plain and simple. Simple and well made is an aesthetic all its own, after all! Both decoration and construction can have lots of variation in style which will dictate what tools you use. If I were training somebody, I'd start with constructions skills first. The good news there is that you likely already have many of the tools you'd need. Basic measuring and cutting tools. Tandy's tools are all over the place, some completely useless, and others not bad. As a rule, Weaver is better (I only have a couple of theirs, but they fairly good). I have a preference for vintage tools, which are generally quite good - if you find them in good condition (click the banner at the top of the page for Bruce Johnson when it pops up). There are also a number of folks out there making VERY good tools - For a matching price tag! Tooling is a pretty broad subject, but that is where some of the Tandy tools shine. They are not fantastic, but they are inexpensive (and often on sale). They are a good way to get a feel for the type of tooling that you like to do so that you can get an idea what better tools you should get later! A few years ago, Tandy were considered bottom of the barrel. Then along came the really cheap ebay tools from China - and we discovered just how deep the barrel really was! Tandy are now more middle of the road. Not that they've greatly improved. They are still good for an introduction to tooling. When you've figured out your style, replace them with something better, such as Barry King - sort of the low end of high end tools? Hope that helps! - Bill Quote
Members sinpac Posted January 19, 2020 Members Report Posted January 19, 2020 A lot of great advice given out here. I am going to throw my 2 cents in as well. "Buy once, cry once." meaning buy the best quality tool you can. it will only help you down the road. Like others have said you only need a few tool to get started and when you start gaining ground, buy a few more and so forth. Chris Quote "It ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa
CFM Hardrada Posted January 19, 2020 CFM Report Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, chrisash said: Nobody makes garbage tools anymore Not true at all. China has been consistently flooding the market with garbage and they will continue to do so as long as there are people willing to 'save' money buying such rubbish. Even Tandy has quite a number of Chinese-made items and a number of them are utter garbage. Case in point: their economy Craftool oblong punches. I bought one: it's an ABJECT PIECE OF CRAP! Can I say that louder? Flimsy thing, bent so that the shape isn't regular but bean-shaped, won't punch through 9 oz English bridle cleanly and without about a dozen whacks of a heavy mallet (wanna have fun? Try punching a hole with that using Tandy's yellow poly mallet)... I could go on, but the point is made: there are plenty is a mega-surplus of garbage tools out there, just waiting for the 'budget-minded' poor sap to buy them—buy them many times over. Edited January 19, 2020 by Hardrada Quote
CFM Hardrada Posted January 19, 2020 CFM Report Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Onidori said: What im asking is, do i avoid Tandy's tools because they are garbage? Or are they good? Are Weaver's tools better quality than Tandy's? (Which seems to be what im picking up, Weavers tools tend to be better made and more geared toward the professional, while Tandy's are more for the beginner). Avoid both altogether and go with a different brand? Tandy is all over the place. Some of their stuff, such as their Craftool Pro punches, is made in Taiwan, which is good, whereas other items are made in China which should say enough about what you can expect in terms of quality. Now, there's some Chinese stuff that is relatively decent, but it won't be the cheapest priced, obviously. We do get what we pay for. BuckleGuy, for instance, has most of their hardware manufactured in China: I ordered two different kinds of buckles from them: the ~$1.04 buckle is garbage: you can bend the prong with your fingers effortlessly, but their $1.78 buckle is solid enough. Weaver's tools, the ones made in the USA are very good. I just got one of their Mastercraft oblong punches to replace the crap one I got from Tandy, and I'm impressed: sharp, perfect shape, and it punches through 9 oz English bridle easily. Of course, Tandy's junk punch is $13, versus $86 for the Weaver. Again, we get what we pay for. I didn't 'save' $73 when I bought Tandy's economy punch: I LOST $13! The time spent fixing the twisted shape with a clickers knife should be chalked up as a loss too. If you have a Tandy store nearby you can physically visit, do go there and check out their tools. Check the labels to see their provenance; weigh them in your hand; see how sharp they are; &c. If your only choice is to buy online, then avoid the 'economy' tools and save money by choosing the 'pro' ones. Other tools that are good: C. S. Osborne (although there are reports that they've been cutting corners too, but what I've got from them is good); Kyoshin Elle and Seiwa (you can get them at Rocky Mountain Leather Supply or at goodsjapan.com); Barry King (their mallets are a must, skip the Tandy mallets). Edited January 19, 2020 by Hardrada Addenda Quote
Members sinpac Posted January 19, 2020 Members Report Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, chrisash said: "regardless of price are now made using CNC machines and the finishing is the only difference in price" I would have to say that is a false statement. Here is a statement made from a dealer in stamps " This tool should not be struck with a weighted maul as this stamp is made of a lightweight metal, likely zinc, and could bend or break." This is from another tool manufacturer. "Using only stainless steel in the making of these tools, you will see the precision grinding in every impression you make." Key word grind. That tells me handmade. Like Craftool did years ago. There are several manufacturing plant pumping out low quality tools. I for one don't want to keep buying them over and over. Am I saying never buy overseas? of course not. Japan has some great tool makers. What I am saying is, if it sounds to good to be true, then it probably is. Edited January 19, 2020 by sinpac Quote "It ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa
Members sinpac Posted January 19, 2020 Members Report Posted January 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, Hardrada said: C. S. Osborne (although there are reports that they've been cutting corners too I would say on some of there stuff you are correct. top left: Vintage #6 Craftool U.S.A. top right: #9 Gomph bottom Osborne #6 Quote "It ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa
Members Onidori Posted January 23, 2020 Members Report Posted January 23, 2020 On 1/19/2020 at 11:18 AM, Hardrada said: Case in point: their economy Craftool oblong punches. I bought one: it's an ABJECT PIECE OF CRAP! Can I say that louder? Flimsy thing, bent so that the shape isn't regular but bean-shaped, won't punch through 9 oz English bridle cleanly Ironically, watching videos from Tandy and Weaver on their obling punches is what brought this question up in my mind. I could see in the videos the apparent quality difference between the 2, as well as their fit & finish and build quality. Then, when i physcially went in to the local Tandy store and saw their oblong punches, i was rather disappoineted and immediately knew something was up. So i started searching the internet, and thats how i wound up here. Quote
Members Onidori Posted January 23, 2020 Members Report Posted January 23, 2020 One thing i would like to really make a point to say to you all is: thak you. I have gotten a lot of great responses and information from you all, and have gotten nothing but a friendly, warm welcome from this community, which can be a very rare thing to find in any hobby/trade, which tend to be full of condescending and standoffish "veterans". So far that has not at all been the case and i want you to know it is appreciated. Quote
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