Everything Ferdco Pro 2000

[RemingtonSteel]

I have my new (to me) Ferdco Pro 2000, so I thought I would start a new thread to help compile as much information as I can on the machine.  As it is a 19 year old machine which was mostly sitting around without being used for the last 8 years or so, I think it prudent to thoroughly clean and re-lubricated as much of the machine as I can without taking it apart.  I will post some picture when I get around to it, but in the meantime, I do have some questions.

The Ferdco manual says to use hydraulic fluid with an additive (can't remember off the top of my head) mixed in, as the lubricating oil. It appears that most 441 clone manufacturers suggest lily white oil. I would assume that it is safe to use lily white oil, but thought I would ask.

Any suggestions on what should absolutely be done before I put the machine into service?

From another post just after I purchased the unit:

On 11/24/2019 at 11:35 AM, JJN said:

One more thing. I bought a full set of of feet, left, right, double toe, and blanket with both smooth and toothed feed dogs. I also bought 3 different needle/throat plates. I had to make some adjustments because the new style feet are taller than the Ferdco feet.

 @JJN, Where did you get that attachments, and what adjustments did you need to make to get them to work on the Pro 2000? 

I assume that I can buy any 441 clone bobbins without issue, as I would imagine that they would at least be interchangeable.

 

[JJN]

Here is a post I made recently on another thread with the same question.

I  bought 44152 & 44155 smooth and toothed throat plates ($29 each), 44174 flat throat plate, 44162G & 44178 smooth and toothed feed dogs ($50 each), and the left, right double & center buckle feet 44180 thru 44183. I also bought a genuine Juki blanket foot set from JM Foley with some other thread tension parts I needed.

On 11/4/2019 at 2:26 PM, JJN said:

Beiler's Manufacturing & Supply is an Amish owned company in Pennsylvania. Because of their faith, they do not have a website or online ordering. Order by telephone with credit card or mail order. I bought a set of narrow left, right and double toe feet from them. Very nice quality. I also bought the flat throat plate and several other plates and feed dogs. I don't have any experience with Typical but I think they would fit.

Item A-22-F is the throat plate that shoepatcher referred to. Item C D E & F are the narrow feet I bought.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by JJN
added stuff

[RemingtonSteel]

JJN, Great info thanks! Just ordered their catalog.  Still would like to know what adjustment did you need to make to get the new feet to work with the Pro 2000?

Edited November 27, 2019 by RemingtonSteel

[JJN]

If I remember correctly, I just had to raise the presser foot bar a little and then balance the lift between the inner and outer feet. Do not touch the needle bar, no change there. I'll have to take a look at it again to give you the detailed instructions.

[dikman]

RS, I researched oil some time ago and the MSDS indicates that Lilly White oil is basically hydraulic oil, ISO-22. So you could use either Lilly White or buy hydraulic oil, whichever is either cheaper or more convenient.

[JJN]

RS, here is the Juki 441 engineers manual. It has detailed instructions with diagrams for all the adjustments. These should apply to your Ferdco just fine.

Look at page 10.

 

Juki 441 Engineers Manual.pdf

Edited November 27, 2019 by JJN

[RemingtonSteel]

53 minutes ago, dikman said:

RS, I researched oil some time ago and the MSDS indicates that Lilly White oil is basically hydraulic oil, ISO-22. So you could use either Lilly White or buy hydraulic oil, whichever is either cheaper or more convenient.

Thanks, I thought it should not be an issue, but it never hurts to ask. I think I will stick to the Lily White that I purchased, as I like the idea of it being clear with less staining properties.

16 minutes ago, JJN said:

RS, here is the Juki 441 engineers manual. It has detailed instructions with diagrams for all the adjustments. These should apply to your Ferdco just fine.

Look at page 10.

Juki 441 Engineers Manual.pdf

Thank for the adjustment info and for the Juki 441 manual.  It will make a nice supplement to the Pro 2000 Operations and Parts manual that came with the machine.

[RemingtonSteel]

I spent several hours today cleaning up the table and machine. Then thoroughly lubricated the machine with Lily White oil. Here are some photos of the machine:

After cleaning all of the dust and dirt off, the machine, it looks brand new.  The table would look new as well, if the edging was not all cracked and deteriorating, but that can be replaced. 

What I did find wrong:  The roller edge guide is frozen in the slide block, but I have that soaking in penetrating oil as I type.  The bobbin winder does not work, but upon removing it from the machine, I found the broken friction O-ring sitting in the machine (already ordered 2 replacements).

The big question now is, will it sew?

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by RemingtonSteel

[RemingtonSteel]

So the machine came with one needle in the unit but I don't know what size it is (22, 23, 24, 25), and came with 5 spools of DABOND polyester, 3 Pheasant Beige ( #207, #277, #346) and 2 Black (#207, #277).  So I loaded up some beige 277 on top and 207 on the bobbin. Watched a video on how to thread both correctly, and played around withe a few stitch runs to get the the tension adjusted. Then I sewed two pieces of 7/8 oz together and here is the result:

Front

Back

Don't judge me too harshly on the straightness of the stitch or stitch placement, as this was my first attempt at sewing leather on this machine.  I just wanted to show the what the machine is stitching upon setting it up in my work-space.  The stitch is approx 6 spi.  The only thing I do not like at this time (besides the clutch motor) is that it has a closed center toe, which makes it hard to see needle placement in the leather.

I think the needle size is way too large for this piece as the holes on the top appear to be excessive. All in all though the machine appears to stitch without much issue at this time, and I am very pleased with the purchase.

Edited November 30, 2019 by RemingtonSteel

[JJN]

RS, I agree, that machine looks like new. The machine is stitching great considering you haven't had to adjust anything. I think you are right, the needle is too large. The foot pressure may be a bit too much. Try backing it off a little and see if it still holds the leather down as the needle rises. That may help reduce the marking of the leather. You have a super nice leather sewing machine now!

[dikman]

Looks great! The machine doesn't show any obvious signs of wear on the paint so I wonder just how much it was used? The needle holes definitely look on the large side, but it's sewing! It's alive!!

Just think how easy it will be to make holsters now.

[shoepatcher]

Balance wheel looks like it downs line up with the slot in table?   Does it or is the photo not right?

glenn

[dikman]

Regarding the closed centre toe, it's possible to open it up by using a Dremel with a cut-off disc and just cut a slot in front of the hole. I did that on one of my Singer feet.

[shoepatcher]

Also, the pitman arm that connects the treadle to the arm on the clutch to end gage the motor should be  vertical to get the best results.  Right now,  it is at a large angle.  Loosen the connector and move it on the  pedal rod.  Machine will work smoother.

glenn

[CowboyBob]

2 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

Also, the pitman arm that connects the treadle to the arm on the clutch to end gage the motor should be  vertical to get the best results.  Right now,  it is at a large angle.  Loosen the connector and move it on the  pedal rod.  Machine will work smoother.

glenn

Looks to me like he doesn't have it fastened onto the right-side of the arm yet.There's no where to fasten it on the leftside.

[RemingtonSteel]

14 hours ago, JJN said:

The foot pressure may be a bit too much. Try backing it off a little and see if it still holds the leather down as the needle rises. That may help reduce the marking of the leather.

I thought the same thing, and had already reduced the foot pressure before reading this.  After reading this, I have backed off the pressure some more (now about 10 complete turns), but it is still making the marks, but not as much.  I just found in the manual that the "Normal height of presser spring regulator is 30 mm."  Right now I am at 35 mm, a and am not sure how much more I can/should back it off, but I will play around with it some more.

13 hours ago, dikman said:

The machine doesn't show any obvious signs of wear on the paint so I wonder just how much it was used?

I was thinking the same thing.  The son said his father had used it for awhile then went back to hand sewing (pack saddles), as he preferred it more.  The son used it to sew one holster a few years back... So I am guessing not much use.

12 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

Balance wheel looks like it downs line up with the slot in table?

Partial illusion. With the belt on, there is about a 1/4" space between the belt and the left side of the cutout in the table.

2 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

Also, the pitman arm that connects the treadle to the arm on the clutch to end gage the motor should be  vertical to get the best results.

CowboyBob is spot on, as it is not vertical as I don't have it connected yet. I put the minimal amount of assembly into it so that I could clean it up and lubricate it in the driveway.  I then disassembled it to move it to its new home in the house where everything was assembled correctly including the work lamp and spool holder.

Edited November 30, 2019 by RemingtonSteel

[RemingtonSteel]

After playing with it yesterday, I could probably live with the clutch motor if I had to, but I don't have the very slow speed control that I see with servo motors.  To me it will be well worth the extra cost to get a servo motor for the extra control. 

Clutch motor questions: With the power on, I cannot turn the handwheel by hand if the clutch isn't engaged. It is as if there is a break to stop the machine when the clutch is disengaged, which would make sense. I obviously can't turn the handwheel by hand once I do engage the clutch as the motor takes over.  So how do you use the handwheel with a clutch motor? Right now I find it very difficult to stop the machine at the exact top or bottom of the stroke.  Can you turn the handwheel by hand with a servo motor, or is there even a need to?   

Also the clutch motor has a 6v power outlet to supply power to the 6v 17w incandescent work light, that barely provides any additional light to the work area.  Going to have to upgrade that as well once I upgrade to a servo motor.

[Wizcrafts]

All modern era clutch motors have a big bolt on the right front that adjusts the slack between the brake and the clutch ring. Back out the bolt to get more free movement, then set the locknut.

There is a thumbscrew on the arm under the motor with a spring. Screw it in to raise the lever all the way up when your foot is off the pedal. Make sure that the back of the pedal isn't hitting the floor when backed all the way off. It is does hit the floor, readjust the linkage until it has some clearance above the floor.

[CowboyBob]

18 hours ago, RemingtonSteel said:

After playing with it yesterday, I could probably live with the clutch motor if I had to, but I don't have the very slow speed control that I see with servo motors.  To me it will be well worth the extra cost to get a servo motor for the extra control. 

Clutch motor questions: With the power on, I cannot turn the handwheel by hand if the clutch isn't engaged. It is as if there is a break to stop the machine when the clutch is disengaged, which would make sense. I obviously can't turn the handwheel by hand once I do engage the clutch as the motor takes over.  So how do you use the handwheel with a clutch motor? Right now I find it very difficult to stop the machine at the exact top or bottom of the stroke.  Can you turn the handwheel by hand with a servo motor, or is there even a need to?   

Also the clutch motor has a 6v power outlet to supply power to the 6v 17w incandescent work light, that barely provides any additional light to the work area.  Going to have to upgrade that as well once I upgrade to a servo motor.

Just push the pedal 1/4" or so to release the brake.Most servos have a 110volt outlet on them & you can get a LED that are a lot brighter.

[Bert51]

If you have you belt to tight , you will find the peddle stiff to push down and hard to feather starting to sew.

Remember, it is a sewing machine not a car.

Bert.

[Wizcrafts]

You can spread a little oil or grease on the brake pad to get smoother engaging of the clutch. A combination of a small pulley and slack before the clutch engages will make the motor much more user friendly.

The belt should have at least 1/2 inch deflection in the middle, between the motor and the pulley on the machine, when you press it with your finger. Of course, you don't want it so loose that it slips....

[RemingtonSteel]

On 11/30/2019 at 11:19 PM, Wizcrafts said:

All modern era clutch motors have a big bolt on the right front that adjusts the slack between the brake and the clutch ring. Back out the bolt to get more free movement, then set the locknut.

Took your advice and backed out the big bolt several turns, with not much luck.  Tonight I backed it out another 1 1/2 turns which I think is as far as it would go, and that helped.  Now after about a 1/4" depression on the foot pedal, as CowboyBob mentioned, the break is released before the clutch engages, and I can turn the handwheel, but there is still some resistance. This also helped to slow the startup speed a little bit, and the clutch can now be feather a little as well.  I don't think the original owner knew how to make these tweaks, which may be one of the reasons he went back to hand sewing his pack saddles.

The needle that came on the unit turned out to be a #25 Schmetz and looks to be a diamond point.  Today I received my first few packets of needles - Oregon #24 and #25 794LL. So I ran a line of stitching with the Schmetz #25 (on the top) then I ran a line of stitching with the Oregon #24 (on the bottom).

The holes still appear large on the smaller Oregon #24 needle, even though it is the recommended needle size, based on the thread size (277 top, 207 bottom).  I do like the way the stitches lay in the stitching grove with the LL point needles. Going to have to try other point styles to find the ones I like best for western holsters.  The feet are still marking the leather, but not as bad since I backed off the tension, but not sure how much further I can back it off.