What's The Better of the Machines Available?

[RoosterShooter]

I've been away for quite a while, and decided to get back into Leatherwork. 

 

What is the best machine available in the $2500 or Less category? 

 

I'll be mainly sewing holsters, but with the occasional leather bag or wallet. 

 

Thanks in advance.

[Wizcrafts]

How thick will your holsters be and what size thread do you want to use?

[RoosterShooter]

8 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

How thick will your holsters be and what size thread do you want to use?

The thickest part I would ever sew would be 3 pieces of 8 oz., and that would only be to attach a belt loop. 

On a regular basis I would only be sewing 2 pieces of 6-7 oz. using 277 nylon bonded thread.

 

[Wizcrafts]

13 hours ago, RoosterShooter said:

The thickest part I would ever sew would be 3 pieces of 8 oz., and that would only be to attach a belt loop. 

On a regular basis I would only be sewing 2 pieces of 6-7 oz. using 277 nylon bonded thread.

 

Based upon your requirements, at a minimum I recommend the Cowboy CB3200. It sews a solid half inch of veg-tan with up to #346 bonded thread.

Note: if you know in advance that you will be sewing right next to dropped areas, like belt loops on the bottom, or preshaped holsters up and down, the 9" arm CB3500 or the 16.5" arm CB4500 with an optional raised holster plate is a better choice. This is based on experience. I could not sew holsters the way I build most of them with only the standard flat throat plate. Shapes on the bottom get in the way of that plate.

If you sew flat first and shape later, this won't be as much of an issue. Then, of course, if you dye after sewing, the thread will be dyed too.

[RoosterShooter]

8 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Based upon your requirements, at a minimum I recommend the Cowboy CB3200. It sews a solid half inch of veg-tan with up to $346 bonded thread.

Note: if you know in advance that you will be sewing right next to dropped areas, like belt loops on the bottom, or preshaped holsters up and down, the 9" arm CB3500 or the 16.5" arm CB4500 with an optional raised holster plate is a better choice. This is based on experience. I could not sew holsters the way I build most of them with only the standard flat throat plate. Shapes on the bottom get in the way of that plate.

If you sew flat first and shape later, this won't be as much of an issue. Then, of course, if you dye after sewing, the thread will be dyed too.

OK thanks.  I was kind of looking for something different than the CB3200.  I owned one for quite a while, and used it for a solid 2 years before leaving it under a cover in my shop, due to slowing down on leatherwork.  I sold the machine, due to inactivity, and ultimately regret doing it.  However, I'm curious as to what other options are out there. 

One of the main reasons I'm kind of looking for suggestions OTHER than the Cowboy CB3200 is simply because of price.  It seems they keep going up $200 every time I look at them, and even since I talked to Neel's Saddlery back in November ... they have gone up another $200 from the previous $1800.  When I bought my first machine I paid $1500 shipped to my door, and that was back in 2015.   That was around $1300 plus $200 for Freight! 

I guess what I'm trying to say is ... falling in line with the other models ... what makes the CB3200 worth $500 more than 4 years ago?  After all, the Cobra Class 4s and other models haven't gone up nearly as much. 

I hope I'm making myself clear.  As, what I'm trying to say is ... for me it's Perceived Value.  I don't see the CB3200 worth more than a $1500 machine.  While the Cobra has held it's price, pretty much stationary, since 2015.   When I spoke the Neel's back in November I specifically asked if the price was going to go up any more, and he said he didn't know.  He "might have to raise the price due to Trump's Trade Tariffs" ... as they affect the price of each machine that much. 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by RoosterShooter

[Wizcrafts]

Cowboy and Cobra brands are made in China and have been severely impacted by multiple import tariffs since September of 2018. The dealers have to pay these new fees every time they clear machines from Customs. These tariffs have been compounding since 2018. Once applied they are non-refundable.

All this aside, the price for American made Campbell-Randall and Union Lockstitch needle and awl machines has remained fairly stable. Some of the Japanese built Juki machines have gone up in price because of new models with feature additions and operational improvements. A Juki TSC-441 can be had for as little as $5,750.00 at Nick-O-Sew. The new Adler leather sewing machines have actually come down since their introduction a couple years ago. The top-of-the-line Adler 969 ECO has dropped from 11k to 9k through Weaver Leather.

[kgg]

13 hours ago, RoosterShooter said:

One of the main reasons I'm kind of looking for suggestions OTHER than the Cowboy CB3200 is simply because of price.  It seems they keep going up $200 every time I look at them, and even since I talked to Neel's Saddlery back in November ... they have gone up another $200 from the previous $1800.  When I bought my first machine I paid $1500 shipped to my door, and that was back in 2015.   That was around $1300 plus $200 for Freight! 

Nice increase in a couple of months and over 50% increase since 2015.

10 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Cowboy and Cobra brands are made in China and have been severely impacted by multiple import tariffs since September of 2018.

Begs the question. Are the prices going to fall back once the tariffs are removed or lessen?? Maybe it may be best to buy a good used machine and wait the tariffs out.

kgg

[RoosterShooter]

4 minutes ago, kgg said:

Nice increase in a couple of months and over 50% increase since 2015.

Begs the question. Are the prices going to fall back once the tariffs are removed or lessen?? Maybe it may be best to buy a good used machine and wait the tariffs out.

kgg

I've also wondered how many machines they are holding prior to the tariffs, and using the tariffs as an excuse to raise their prices.  A lot of companies will do this if they think their customers don't know any better. 

 

For instance, they'll use the 'Tariff' excuse for sales going forward , even through they were holding 40 machines prior to the Tariff's Taking affect. It's a way to gouge customers when you aren't selling as many machines as you'd like, and that one guy will buy one to pay for the profit margin of two machines being sold.   What they don't realize is if they would lower their prices, or run a "Sale", they would sell 10 machines to the 2 or 3 that they sold at the higher price. 

 

[kgg]

I think a lot of the price on a lot of Chinese machines has more to due with what the reseller figures the market will bear and what the customer perceives the value of the item to be. Example 29k type machine no label from Asc365.com in Ontario, Canada who imports a lot of different stuff from China and advertises on kijiji costs $1079 ($825 US) with no table / motor and probably with little/no support

( https://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-business-industrial/city-of-toronto/leather-sewing-machine-leather-sewing-mending-machine-shoe-repair-industrial-188073/cas_10224180?channelId=101&td=4H9L53pF2g-jafmKKdIpi_wsecM9ZoX8bISfb_-hv5GcjWbzWXSCMddq86deX-pFHG9_WUE8Kz0xk6quJCEAyeieMUi-RrpSn9YRoSa77dBEYK8IVF6Oi1wrxYZse6XyMvxbyM-OG35BSz-y18eskoAS_G8aPoGLUYZj1490fvckHqx-N_z-uBbhjGlvJV21dJxEL_8-OPWY5nqd8ajN4TdL3LWIuLeJ2XYcD_4QhKjh184OVo826pijD1floMkPk0LKnD7MS-R3WeGXBAMZPzIcGfi8u57v0JNWeSvYNUZSkXNYgEohRgo7wKBgUy3RP3W6urdQomA9n8NdnAZBrfJvPfD8meXIBEfmMEERdU99NPHWcO0bgAr4lHBxq4QFcyuz8oIA7x4HTzY5mL39Gbf7ETS31kfJC4vcGvCWKcVKYUXqu17t0GGSUsidkCDKBgv11HdFyrWfJdwN9HhAd_Kni6EzWBZkN3YRHsNUpvUMYXo71_TidOLho8v_c7oyM3G3Ov0QqDyxFLwxJzm06vZgKjVSdHBJA2lhle5My4XMgQ7iCS-XBVHWGWtVzswt5Dxy0W4pPa1shHu-8InKIilPy4SvqJpcDAjlct4GXx8 )

while another reseller sells a similar 29k machine, also in Canada, for $2500 ($1900 US) with table / servo motor and support. I would have to look at the $1500 saving less the cost of the table/servo motor.

kgg

[JLSleather]

1 hour ago, RoosterShooter said:

For instance, they'll use the 'Tariff' excuse for sales going forward ,

You'll see people selling Hermann Oak leather, in B and C (and worse) grades, for TWICE what Hermann Oak charges for A grade.  Hermann Oak is NOT in China.  Tariffs my backside  But that will continue as long as people are willing to pay it.

I pay $2 for a simple coffee at teh "convenience" store.  I know I could make my own coffee for like a quarter, so the markup is insane.  But, The $1.75 extra is for not having to go to where my coffee pot is, pour the stuff... etc.  

In the end, I don't really care to hear the long-winded stories some tell about WHY the cost is the cost (usually just a line of BS marketing spew anyway).  Just give me the total, and I'll pay it or I won't.

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by JLSleather