double layer, folding, stretch..

[hughlle]

I had a search, but tbh I suck with search terms.. sorry.

So other than my tokonole and glue, everything else has arrived. So I sat down and took a crash course in illustrator. My thoughts relate to this bit

Having now cut out all of the panels and such for the wallet, I'm sat thinking if there is a cut-off in thickness when folding the thing in half. Is there a certain thickness where the outer layer will not stretch and allow it to fold in half easily without the inner layer attempting to seperate and kink. I hope you can get what I'm trying to say. Imagine a stack of currency. Fold it in half and the ends of the ones in the middle will stick out further than the ones on the outside.

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/P71Y76/fat-stack-of-cash-folded-in-half-with-rubber-band-isolated-on-white-P71Y76.jpg

Or is this where you'd want to be using something like chromium instead of veg tan? 

Edited January 6, 2020 by hughlle

[Hardrada]

The way I sussed that out was by using two scraps of the leather I'd use, put them back to back, clamp one end, and fold through the middle, then measure the amount that protrudes from the inner panel beyond the edge of the outer one: that would be by how much I must shorten the inner panel in my template. This distance will vary with different leathers or weights, so I'd keep notes.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Hardrada

[hughlle]

12 minutes ago, Hardrada said:

The way I sussed that out was by using two scraps of the leather I'd use, put them back to back, clamp one end, and fold through the middle, then measure the amount that protrudes from the inner panel beyond the edge of the outer one: that would be by how much I must shorten the inner panel in my template. This distance will vary with different leathers or weights, so I'd keep notes.

Thanks. Yes, it is certainly possible to cut the inner shorter, but then the flipside is that it will not completely open without the same potential for pull/separation. Why I mentioned chromium as a possible method of alleviating this (I've never used leather before, but have read that it is more stretchy than the veg tan I currently have). The circumference of the inner and outer is simple maths at the end of the day, but all a learning process and educational. Only day 1 but enjoying spotting the little things

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by hughlle

[Hardrada]

What's the weight of your leather and how many panels are you using that need to fold? If you're in the 1.5 oz range, it'll fold OK, as leather stretches to a point. Another way wallet makers deal with this potential problem is by placing all the extra panels to one side and leaving only one layer of leather in the centre/folding area.

Yes, chrome tanned is more supple but it's a PITA to skive, and an even greater PITA to burnish. That's why I don't like using it.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Hardrada

[hughlle]

8 minutes ago, Hardrada said:

What's the weight of your leather and how many panels are you using that need to fold? If you're in the 1.5 oz range, it'll fold OK, as leather stretches to a point. Another way wallet makers deal with this potential problem is by placing all the extra panels to one side and leaving only one layer of leather in the centre/folding area.

Yes, chrome tanned is more supple but it's a PITA to skive, and an even greater PITA to burnish. That's why I don't like using it.

In the UK, or at least from the supplier I used, it is not sold by weight but by thickness. In this case, 1.5mm, so I guess 4oz? Maybe 5. I've a pair of additional panels for cards, but the question is focused on a pair of matching 1.5mm panels glued and stitched back to back and then folded in half. 

[LatigoAmigo]

3 hours ago, hughlle said:

Or is this where you'd want to be using something like chromium instead of veg tan? 

The type of leather will make little or no difference, it has more to do with the thickness. What I do is add 1/8 - 1/4 inch (depending on the look I want) to the outside (or subtract from the inside) layer. With the inside being smaller there will be a slight pucker when you open the wallet, so once you've done this you will get a better feel for how much of an adjustment to make.

[zuludog]

Well firstly, it is easy enough to find a conversion chart for ounces/millimetres of leather thickness, just Search t'Net

1,5 mm thick is just about right, either veg tan or chrome

When you make a wallet you usually make the outer piece of leather slightly longer than the inner to allow for the folding and the thickness of all your wads of cash. Then you assemble the pieces, which gives the wallet a permanent slight fold. This is a compromise which allows the wallet to be filled with cash, and folded over, but it won't open out completely flat - see YT videos

Do you want to make a simple single layer wallet as shown in the pictures above by HADRADA, or do you want to have a longer outer pocket as well, in which case the wallet is often called a billfold wallet. Whatever style you choose, you usually leave the central part  as thin as possible to allow for folding, and the design you've shown does not do that

You say "I've never used leather before"  so I suggest you Search You Tube for videos on 'how to make a leather wallet/billfold/card holder. There are loads of them, and you'll start to see how it's done.

You also say "having now cut out all the panels"  Well here's my suggestion -

For the moment don't do any more work on your design. Instead start with something as simple as possible, like a single card holder; then a fold over card holder; then a wallet. Then you can come back and modify your design or incorporate it into others

Get a plan, usually downloaded from t'Net; that way you will have a proven, workable design. Once you've got some experience you can go on to making your own. Wallets look easy - 's all straight lines innit? - but as you've found out, they can be tricky

I've made mostly belts and sheaths, but now that I want to make wallets I got a plan. Nigel Armitage has a video called 'How to make a simple handstitched wallet', or some similar title. It's worth watching, and it also comes with a plan pack, which is excellent. Besides the actual plans it has a lot of information & advice, starting with a card holder, and building up to more complicated designs. Worth getting, and it's only £10

J H LEATHER  has made several videos on leatherwork, they are simple, clear, and she explains things as she goes along. Have a look at; Make Your Own; Minimalist Card Wallet, and Make Your Own; Bi - fold Wallet. There are plan packs for them

Also, when I started I made mock - ups from card - old cereal packets taped/glued/stapled together. These showed me what the finished item might look like; the kinds of pockets I wanted; and the sequence of construction. It's free, and easy to do - old cardboard is a damn sight cheaper than leather!

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by zuludog

[Hardrada]

For conversions, if you use Imperial it's super simple: 1 oz = 1/64".

If you use metric, the old 4 Multiplication Table is your friend, as 1 oz = 0.4 mm. Thus, 2 oz = 0.8 mm, 3 oz = 1.2 mm, and so forth.

My preferred weight for wallets is 2.5 oz; it keeps skiving to a minimum.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Hardrada

[Hardrada]

7 hours ago, zuludog said:

Nigel Armitage has a video called 'How to make a simple handstitched wallet', or some similar title. It's worth watching, and it also comes with a plan pack, which is excellent. Besides the actual plans it has a lot of information & advice, starting with a card holder, and building up to more complicated designs. Worth getting, and it's only £10 

Definitely worth buying! And the good thing about Nigel Armitage is that he doesn't limit you to personal use only for his templates: you're more than welcome to sell wallets/pouches made from them as well as modify them to suit you. The only thing he does ask is that you don't share the pack files, which is a more than reasonable and easy to honour proviso.

[hughlle]

Thanks for the replies. I have considered packs and templates, but I'm one of those foolish and frustrating people that just likes to jump in and see what is what. The template I made up works well when the pieces are put together. Folding it up though resulted in observing the issue, and hence the thread. Easy enough to just trim a small amount off the inner pannel (and take a measurement) and then fold again and see what is what. I was just wondering about stretch given what some youtube videos I've watched have talked about. Seems it is not worth considering, and plan without it as a variable. I'm not going to be defeated though. I'm a learn from mistakes kind of guy.

Interestingly, given the advice from you guys, the wallets builds that I've watched on youtube, they've all resulted in perfectly flat end products, and the makers make no attempt to actually fold them up. The 2 main panels were identical in size. Peculiar.

Text from Tandy, glue should arrive tomorrow, so I can continue to experiment and have a bit of fun. That's what I'm doing it for after all  

[RockyAussie]

4 hours ago, hughlle said:

Interestingly, given the advice from you guys, the wallets builds that I've watched on youtube, they've all resulted in perfectly flat end products, and the makers make no attempt to actually fold them up. The 2 main panels were identical in size. Peculiar.

And I would say wrong as well. If I am designing a wallet I consider that the inside should not need to be trimmed shorter to fit the outside. As much as I have years of experience with cad drawing I also have learnt that some leathers are not always the right thickness perfectly and some leathers stretch way more than other leathers. The answer is best to leave room to trim the outside a little after it attaches to the inside. Putting the 2 pieces together flat will not allow it to fold together well and putting it so it is able to fold fully down does not then allow it to open fully very well. I go for a just past 90 degrees when attaching together depending on the thickness and leather stretch and trim up after it comes together. This is done whether it is a folded edge or raw edge finish. I should add that all the wallets I make are stitched fully around the outer edge. The first pic below shows a raw edge with edging applied and the second shows a folded edge. Last one is cause I reckon it looks good. Helps show how some outer skin leathers can vary in the thickness.

[hughlle]

Well I figured I'd keep it basic, and remove the inner layer that prompted this thread. I know that I should have just stitched all of the way around, but was just playing about really. Learnt a few things in the process, but I still ended up with a usable item. I'm quite pleased with my stitching for a first attempt. Thanks for the input though, I might be trial and error in my approach, but its still nice to be able to see what other people think is right. 

Don't have my tokenol yet, so just used some homemade waterproofing wax on the edges (beeswax, terpentine, boiled linseed oil)

 

[Northmount]

Check the patterns in the linked posts.  They have an expandable insert. 

Tom