Juki DU-1181-N / Be a good choice?

[Rodzhobyz]

I can get this machine, which looks to be in show room condition, from the original owner for $650 with the servo motor / table.  

  I already have a CB-4500 to handle the heaviest material I may ever stitch, but am in the market for a flat bed to handle any light weight leathers and this looks to be a good deal, no?

Thanks for offering any opinions, Roger

Edited January 12, 2020 by Rodzhobyz
Typed wrong model # in the title

[kgg]

Nice, well built machine but a 1541 would be a better choice. The price is good as new one would be in the $1400 US price range. The 1182 is not a compound feed machine the material is feed by the movement of the outside and inside portion of the presser foot as well as the feed dog. If I am not mistaken it does not have a safety clutch. It can handle up to V138 thread and probably do a nice job on wallet type work. I guess it is going to come down to what thickness of leather you are planing on using it for.

kgg

[Rodzhobyz]

Thanks kgg. After more searching, I expect this machine probably isn't for me. I'd agree it's a good deal price wise, and having an almost  brand new -1/2 price Juki is tempting, but it seems like there are many other machines out there more suited to my purposes. Sounds like at a minimum I would need to modify the feed dogs to keep veg tan from being chewed up and then add a speed reducer or swap pulleys to have control & as you say, it will never have compound feed.  

Cheers

[Wizcrafts]

17 hours ago, Rodzhobyz said:

Sounds like at a minimum I would need to modify the feed dogs to keep veg tan from being chewed up

You'd also probably have to smooth the teeth on the feet to avoid marking leather. This machine claws cloth and vinyl through. Weakening the tooth pattern will impede the feeding.

[Rodzhobyz]

14 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

You'd also probably have to smooth the teeth on the feet to avoid marking leather. This machine claws cloth and vinyl through. Weakening the tooth pattern will impede the feeding.

Not surprisingly, the information provided in one of your replies to an old Post in the archives is where I learned about the drawbacks of the 1181with regards to sewing leather. 

  

[Wizcrafts]

Actually, if the foot pressure is backed off to the minimum needed, the tooth marks won't be much worse that those from a shoe patcher.

[Rodzhobyz]

I been diligently searching cl 2 & 3x daily hoping to find a good Consew 226R or possibly but not likely a 227 or similar in 1/2 decent shape that I can afford within at least a somewhat reasonable driving distance from me. 

It may have to wait a bit tho, my side project - expense budget took a huge hit with the recent 4500 purchase and even when I've seen the 226's listed they have asked $800-$1200 used and usually that's with the clutch motors, so throw in the costs of a servo motor + speed reducer & that's gettn way out of my wheelhouse for now anyway. 

 That's why the nearly brand new Juki 1181 including the servo motor / table for 40% of a new price looked so tempting to me. 

I've gotten so far in now tho, that I may as well either go ahead and spend the money for new  or wait until I can find an ideal used machine for my light stuff. 

 I could easily wait indefinitely on a bargain deal for my own needs, but, my wife works with her folks in a retail business & since I've started the leather working, she's jumped on board & is making a lot of delicate, jewelry - earrings - bracelets ect, to sell and wants lots of decorative stitching done that I am growing tired of due to the light thread set ups required to use the 4500. 

 I was hopeful that one of my old Singer 15's or a 201 would serve those needs but the Cowboy has now spoiled me from anything without a walking foot. 

Cheers 

 

[Pintodeluxe]

I think a Consew 226 is a good choice, so long as a small G style bobbin isn't a hindrance to you.  For small projects it would work fine.  Add a Juki LU-563 and a Pfaff 545 H4 to the search as well.  Old school big bobbin top loaders are the machines I like best.  

There's a ton of iron in these machines, especially the older Juki's.  They must have built to incredible tolerances because they sure are smooth.  

[Rodzhobyz]

10 hours ago, Pintodeluxe said:

I think a Consew 226 is a good choice, so long as a small G style bobbin isn't a hindrance to you.  For small projects it would work fine.  Add a Juki LU-563 and a Pfaff 545 H4 to the search as well.  Old school big bobbin top loaders are the machines I like best.  

There's a ton of iron in these machines, especially the older Juki's.  They must have built to incredible tolerances because they sure are smooth.  

These industrial sewing machines are for me, a prime example of "the more I learn the less I know". 

The bobbin size is an issue I keep forgetting to consider. So much really doesn't make practical since to me. I knew many of the old patchers are very limited by their bobbin capacity, but why on Earth, most of 100 years down the assembly lines, would engineers design a high production, nearly immortal industrial Sewing machine and then handicap it over some 0.02 sq in of real estate inside the machine?

I can't imagine the additional costs of the larger bobbins having anything to do with restricting the bobbin size on a production model and I sure wouldn't think there's any advantage in having to stop & change them more frequently, but, Im sure there is perfectly logical reasoning behind it that shows off my complete ignorance. 

I am just thankful for you all who pitch in to help get an old green horn where he's trying to go. 

Cheers, Roger. 

[kgg]

16 hours ago, Rodzhobyz said:

I've gotten so far in now tho, that I may as well either go ahead and spend the money for new

Since you are thinking on spending the money on a new machine why not make a road trip to a Juki dealer with some of your light stuff and thread (in the size you are planning on using). That way you can see what model and type ( flatbed or cylinder ) of machine would work best. They may also have a good used one. Remember buy once, cry once.

kgg

[Rodzhobyz]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

" Remember buy once, cry once."

kgg

 I believe this to be sound philosophy. Its also the logic behind the brand new cb4500 I drove 20+ hrs rnd trip to aquire just a couple weeks ago but them tears I'm only crying once haven't quite stopped flowing yet, so I'ma have to save up a bit for a new machine but in the meantime I ain't giving up on finding my used unicorn out there ... somewhere. 

 As always, I appreciate the feedback. 

Roger. 

 

[chrisash]

2 hours ago, Rodzhobyz said:

These industrial sewing machines are for me, a prime example of "the more I learn the less I know". 

The bobbin size is an issue I keep forgetting to consider. So much really doesn't make practical since to me. I knew many of the old patchers are very limited by their bobbin capacity, but why on Earth, most of 100 years down the assembly lines, would engineers design a high production, nearly immortal industrial Sewing machine and then handicap it over some 0.02 sq in of real estate inside the machine?

I can't imagine the additional costs of the larger bobbins having anything to do with restricting the bobbin size on a production model and I sure wouldn't think there's any advantage in having to stop & change them more frequently, but, Im sure there is perfectly logical reasoning behind it that shows off my complete ignorance. 

I am just thankful for you all who pitch in to help get an old green horn where he's trying to go. 

Cheers, Roger. 

A patcher is by design for footwear patches, which will always be small repairs and not need lots of stitching, they also need to be as small in area to fit inside boots etc, a bit of a tradeoff , small is beautiful in a patcher, thread length a minor concern

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, kgg said:

why not make a road trip to a Juki dealer

Nick-O-Sew is a Juki dealer and is in Tennessee

[Rodzhobyz]

2 hours ago, chrisash said:

A patcher is by design for footwear patches, which will always be small repairs and not need lots of stitching, they also need to be as small in area to fit inside boots etc, a bit of a tradeoff , small is beautiful in a patcher, thread length a minor concern

Sure, I can totally get why a shoe Patcher doesn't need a large bobbin, my point was actually trying to understand why a more modern industrial production machine like the 226 wouldn't benefit from having higher capacity bobbins such as the 206. 

[Rodzhobyz]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Nick-O-Sew is a Juki dealer and is in Tennessee

Yes sir, and thats only 30 miles from me.  I met Nick when searching for a cylinder arm machine. I met with him after hrs & was all set to load up a nice looking used Juki 341, when I made a bird's nest out of the bobbin / hook, locked it up and released the safety clutch while test sewing. 

 Nick's mechanics had gone for the day & at the time neither of us knew for sure what had happened to cause the break down so he said I could come back the next business day & it'd be fixed. Knowing nothing about the machine at the time, I got all worried about its condition, then found some threads by customers with unfortunate experiences and got all together spooked from used equipment & ended up trading with CowboyBob for a new model.  

  The more I think about it, knowing what I know now, that machine only did what it was designed to do, save itself from an idiot, I am actually tempted to just go back and buy that same or similar machine for my light weight sewing. I've found the machines less complicated than I had anticipated and it's awfully hard to justify the cost of another brand  new machine for my purposes. 

Something to think about anyway. 

[dikman]

Your reasoning makes sense. I doubt if there was anything wrong with the machine or they wouldn't have allowed you to test it. Simply operator error, we all suffer from that at some point. If the machine suits what you need it for, and the price is right, then it's worth considering because you will have support close by, although as you become more familiar with it you would probably be able to resolve minor issues yourself.

[Wizcrafts]

Did you know about holding back the starting threads when you tested the Juki? Failure to do so virtually  guarantees a birds nest.

[Rodzhobyz]

57 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

Did you know about holding back the starting threads when you tested the Juki? Failure to do so virtually  guarantees a birds nest.

 That was probably the one single thing I did know to do at that time. It sewed really nice for a couple mins, but it was actually the first sewing I'd ever done on any cylinder arm & I was randomly pressing the reverse lever, sometimes while sewing pretty fast & all of a sudden it began making a clicking noise and no more stitching. I am certain now that it was total user error. There was a nice wad of tangled thread left jambed around the hook. We cleared it but noticed the hook position had changed & assumed it'd jumped time ect.  Neither of us knew how simple it would've been to reset. 

[Wizcrafts]

Singer invented the safety clutch to counteract operator errors while they were sewing under pressure and at speed. The simple act of reversing the handwheel at the wrong point in the cycle, or slightly too far, can cause the top thread to get tangled in the shuttle (ask how I know).

[Rodzhobyz]

16 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Singer invented the safety clutch to counteract operator errors while they were sewing under pressure and at speed. The simple act of reversing the handwheel at the wrong point in the cycle, or slightly too far, can cause the top thread to get tangled in the shuttle (ask how I know).

 After that fiasco, I did a lot of web searching / reading about that failure symptom and soon learned about the safety clutch feature. And wasn't ever sure but ended up convincing myself that the very situation you describe about a badly timed reverse must've somehow been how I fouled things up while test Sewing. 

 Knowing the big machine I ended up with, for lack of a more proper terminology, is not quite as "idiot proof", and would have no clutch system to counter poor operator technique, I was awfully timid about even using reverse until I understood how and why thread slack can become an issue by changing sewing direction unless the needle has passed bdc.  

  It's amazing how much simpler things are when you start to understand them. 

Cheers, Roger

[Wizcrafts]

I think you misunderstood what I meant by reversing the handwheel. I meant literally rotating the wheel backwards to reposition the needle to make a turn after it raised out of the material. There is a really narrow range of motion before the top thread gets double hooked when the wheel is reversed that way.

[Rodzhobyz]

14 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I think you misunderstood what I meant by reversing the handwheel. I meant literally rotating the wheel backwards to reposition the needle to make a turn after it raised out of the material. There is a really narrow range of motion before the top thread gets double hooked when the wheel is reversed that way.

Yes sir, you are correct, I didn't read your reply closely enough, and I most definitely didn't physically rotate the handwheel, none the less, I don't at all fault the machine for locking up while I was running it. I am ever amazed by the tedious function these machines perform and the speeds they are capable of doing it reliably. 

Roger