Dye + Angelus Paint + Sealer - process question

[PlatypusMax]

I make jewelry/accessories and am trying to optimize my process to make things more consistently etc. Starting with embossed veg tan leather. I currently am using mostly tandy black dye (I am not partial to it -- would be happy with anything affordable that I can buy in bulk). I then apply a sheen coat of a metallic angelus paint with a roller, so the black low areas show up nicely. Then I have been applying tandy ecoflo with a dauber but find it messes up the paint layer. I have read about this in other strings (thank you!) and am trying to resolve. Suggestions I read about include using an air brush, which I may consider in the future. (I already am playing with tests using a simple spray bottle for comparison and it does speed things up when I have a lot of small pieces). I also saw there was a debate between ecoflo, resolene, and a mop & glo suggestion (that I haven't yet jumped on).

Specifically what I'm wondering is if I can just seal the DYE coat before I apply the paint, and then skip sealing the paint layer? Will the paint layer be safe and ok for use if it is unsealed? 

Angelus paints are acrylic but they sell their own acrylic sealer which they say prevents scratching. (Their target customers are mostly custom shoe painters, which is not what I'm doing, so I don't know if this issue is relevant for non-shoe products!) 

Anyone have experience with angelus sealers to know if they also dissolve acrylic paints? 

Thanks. 

[terrymac]

Applying the paint over a finish will not last.  It needs to adhere to a clean surface.  Angelis sells a deglazer you would need to use on any parts that you have applied a finish.  I think you need to apply a finish to the paint and the only finish I know of, other than the Angelis brand, is Tan Kote. It will not affect the paint. Painting leather is just like painting a car.  It is only going to be as good as the surface was prepared.

Hope this helps

Terry

[Arturomex]

My understanding is that you're applying dye, then paint, then sealer. Is that correct?

If you apply dye, then seal it with an acrylic based product (think Resolene) and then paint you shouldn't have any problems. Acrylic paint on an acrylic substrate should give you a good result as long as everything has dried properly.. I don't think you should need to apply another sealer after the paint but I think I would probably put some Resolene on anyway but that's just me.

It's important to remember that you can't put acrylic paint on anything that has oil or wax on it.

As for dyes, Fiebings sells 32 oz bottles of dye and gallon jugs of Resolene.

Regards,

Arturo

[JLSleather]

Angelus paints (acrylics) are actually quite good.  I'd guess that if you were getting issues when applying 'finish" that your paint wasn't sufficiently set up yet.

Our process is not the same as yours, but I would recommend applying the dye, then allowing to set up (and with black, also buffing it out), THEN applying the "paint", and allowing THAT to set, and THEN applying a finish.  It really sounds like you aren't allowing enough time between steps.

[bullmoosepaddles]

Many here know much more than me about finishing leather. And how it works for them. I would bet Angelus has a customer service department that can connect you with technicians that can help you. Most larger chemical companies have excellent technical service. The only fall back is it will be with their products. But if the price is reasonable and the results predictable. You have a winner. 

In my experience quality leather finishing products have similar price points. Good luck.        

Edited January 19, 2020 by bullmoosepaddles
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[PlatypusMax]

Thanks, good info. Timing may be a factor, I do have a tendency to rush things! I also just learned about vinegaroon dye, which I'm intrigued by (I found a quick recipe using handwarmers (https://imgur.com/gallery/gG86n) that I'm testing out. Big question is if I can get the black dark enough and if anyone has long-term experience, how it wears over time. 

[Mel99]

So I painted my veg tan with angelus paint . I waited until the next day and then tan koted. I waited 12 hours and put a second coat on. Then waited 12 hours and antiqued and the resolened it four hours latter. I lifted paint off of my project both applications. WTF?