Thread Tension Gauge

[Silverd]

Hello

 

I'm considering the purchase of a Thread Tension Gauge.  Does anyone have experience with these devices? 

Silverd

[CowboyBob]

We have  a trigger pull guage,works great for setting the bobbin tension on certain machines.

[Constabulary]

I never understood why I should use / need  such a device - I never had serious issues with adjusting the tension.

Silverd - can you explain why you think you need one?

[iron1951]

I have an inexpensive one that you hang and hook the bobbin thread to it. I don't use it a lot. But one time I had a bird nest problem under the material. No matter how I adjusted the needle thread tension, I could not cure the problem. So I used the bobbin gauge to set the tension of the bobbin. Then I set the needle tension. Got rid of the birds nest. But even after using the bobbin tension gauge, I still tweaked the bobbin and the thread tension to get the stitch I wanted. The bobbin tension gauge helped me ball park a starting tension on the bobbin. It still needed tweaking after the initial setting. I am quite certain that some folks can set the initial tension without a gauge (experience) but that is not me. The bobbin tension gauge helped me.

[dikman]

2 hours ago, Constabulary said:

I never understood why I should use / need  such a device - I never had serious issues with adjusting the tension.

Silverd - can you explain why you think you need one?

I'm with Constabulary. A bit of trial and error, along with experience that comes with actually sewing different materials is probably the most practical aid. Sometimes it may be necessary to tweak things beyond the "recommended" settings.

[Silverd]

3 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

We have  a trigger pull guage,works great for setting the bobbin tension on certain machines.

 

57 minutes ago, dikman said:

I'm with Constabulary. A bit of trial and error, along with experience that comes with actually sewing different materials is probably the most practical aid. Sometimes it may be necessary to tweak things beyond the "recommended" settings.

 

57 minutes ago, dikman said:

I'm with Constabulary. A bit of trial and error, along with experience that comes with actually sewing different materials is probably the most practical aid. Sometimes it may be necessary to tweak things beyond the "recommended" settings.

I'm attempting to find ways to shorten the change over time.  I have two machines set up for sewing 1mm HO bags that I periodically need to change over for other work.    I already have dedicated bobbin holders for the bag thread I use and record the top thread tension adjustment and path for these set ups.   I'm hoping that measuring the  tension might expedite the change back process.   Otherwise, yes,....I can get along using a trial and error method too as you suggest. 

 

Silverd

[Silverd]

After a bit more consideration...

I'm scratching my head about the general response above which appears to suggest that trial over measure is the best method for establishing system tension.  Usually, science is at its best when accurate data is collected and applied.  Good data relies on good measurement which in this case points to the use of a suitable tension gauge.  In many systems experience can augment good science but in the case of establishing the ideal tension setting for a leather matrix, it appears to be the default solution within the sewing community.  The experience, im refering to includes a combination of actual sewing experience along with the application of trials aka the sew-off.   But how could the measurement and recording of tension data not be beneficial to our end goal?  My personnel understanding of the influences that thread size, thread material and thread density have on setting the top and bottom tension is limited.  Additionally, the system varables are numerous.  Getting to the perfect solution is likely not possible using tension data alone, but getting within striking distance might be quickened by using a tension gauge to setup the host machine with an initial 2/3 tension rato then dialing in from there using the trial method.

I suggest there should also be benefits from recording specific proven tension values when using specific thread, leather matrix and needle size.   These set ups can be reproduced back to their nominal values very quickly and fine tuned from there using trials.

I'd be interested in hearing more of the rational that supports soul reliance on trials as the solution to establishing ideal system settings.

 

Silverd

[Bert51]

As far as I see it, there is no set tension for setting up your tension.

I cannot say you need to set your bobbin at 5 pounds to sew 6oz leather and 8 pounds for 8 oz leather.

The leather can vary, as can what size needle you are using. Just way to many variables.

I say to people, when you make your project, keep the scraps and use them to to set up your machine.

Here is Australia I can have 25C° and tomorrow 35C° and what tension I'm sew with today, will be different tomorrow.

Rocky put up a good article about tensions and if I can find it, I will list it for your reading.

Have fun, play with your scraps and set up your machine.

Bert.

[Constabulary]

1 hour ago, Bert51 said:

Just way to many variables.

Thats the point!

Different material density, different material thickness, different needle size, different needle tips (probably), different thread size, different thread material like nylon, polyester, Linen - in variation of bonded, waxes, oiled, or untreated... looots of variables.

I usually set the bottom tension very low the way thread has a little bit resistance (but I still have to feel it) when I pull out the thread. The rest is top tension. And only when I need a tighter stitch I readjust the bottom and of course top tension accordingly. However different machines many need different tensions too. I have more tension (top and bottom) on my Singer 45D91 than on my Singer 111G156 even when I run the same thread.

Its probably a different story when you set up a factory line with 20 similar machines and they all do the same work day in and day out...

[dikman]

Silverd, you are right in that measuring the tension and making a list of figures to match particular materials should give repeatable results - theoretically. Problem is that with leather there is often inconsistency in manufacture which can give variations in density. Singer's method of setting bobbin tension is to adjust it so that when you hold the thread the bobbin won't fall under its own weight but if you jerk the thread the bobbin should start dropping and then slowly stop. Very scientific, I think you will agree.

There is no reason, of course, that you couldn't use a tension gauge if you want but I doubt if too many here would bother, most have just learned by "feel" how to set bobbin tension. To coin a phrase, it's hardly rocket science.

Edited March 21, 2020 by dikman

[chrisash]

A tension gauge was a blessing to me when i had embroidery machines totaling 18 heads and each head had 12 threads, the operator girls would play with the tensions after nearly every new design and often get completely lost no matter how many times i tried to teach them the basics. With the gauge I could quickly reset them all to a common position and slightly adjust from there as necessary. Quite a large adjustment from light colour thread to dark 

[Silverd]

7 hours ago, chrisash said:

A tension gauge was a blessing to me when i had embroidery machines totaling 18 heads and each head had 12 threads, the operator girls would play with the tensions after nearly every new design and often get completely lost no matter how many times i tried to teach them the basics. With the gauge I could quickly reset them all to a common position and slightly adjust from there as necessary. Quite a large adjustment from light colour thread to dark 

My point exactly in that using a tool to measure a variable can serve to get a machine into its nominal setting value quickly.  Please note that at no time do I make the argument that a tension gauge can replace the trials method for arriving at a final setting.  There are too many other factors as you all indicate for that to be expected.  I would think however that using a gauge in the process of establishing a nominal tension setting for top and bottom when loading a completely different thread for instance may be helpful.  Or when returning a machine back to a previously established configuration....followed by a trial event to finalize.  Rocky, have you ever used a thread tension measuring device in this way?

Silverd

[Silverd]

11 hours ago, Bert51 said:

As far as I see it, there is no set tension for setting up your tension.

I cannot say you need to set your bobbin at 5 pounds to sew 6oz leather and 8 pounds for 8 oz leather.

The leather can vary, as can what size needle you are using. Just way to many variables.

I say to people, when you make your project, keep the scraps and use them to to set up your machine.

Here is Australia I can have 25C° and tomorrow 35C° and what tension I'm sew with today, will be different tomorrow.

Rocky put up a good article about tensions and if I can find it, I will list it for your reading.

Have fun, play with your scraps and set up your machine.

Bert.

I am not advocating a direct relationship between leather weight and thread tension.  Rather, using a gauge to help set the tension ratio between top and bottom when introducing a new thread. Then fine tune using the trials method.  

Silverd

[DonInReno]

I think of it like cooking - some cooks lean toward French methods and have to measure everything and others cook more by feel and can only talk in generalizations and recipes change slightly every time.  Some have two knives for everything and others have a dozen knives each specifically for a single purpose.
 

if you love kitchen gadgets then by all means buy a tension gauge.  If you love meticulous record keeping and want to have recipe cards for every thread combination then there’s nothing wrong with that.   I personally can’t imagine there is any time saved over setting tensions the traditional way, but to each his own.

 

[Silverd]

1 hour ago, DonInReno said:

I think of it like cooking - some cooks lean toward French methods and have to measure everything and others cook more by feel and can only talk in generalizations and recipes change slightly every time.  Some have two knives for everything and others have a dozen knives each specifically for a single purpose.
 

if you love kitchen gadgets then by all means buy a tension gauge.  If you love meticulous record keeping and want to have recipe cards for every thread combination then there’s nothing wrong with that.   I personally can’t imagine there is any time saved over setting tensions the traditional way, but to each his own.

 

Your statement speaks to my original question.   Has anyone experience actualy using a tension gauge?  I've been sewing a few years on several machines and understand how to set tension using the trials method quite successfully.  Introducing more tools to a process can mean more time. Introducing the right tools can save time.  We advance skills, technology and capabilities by questioning the status quo then working toward better solutions.  This topic is just another example.  I appreciate your keep it simple approach.  If the benefits don't out weight the added complexity then it certainly would be something I wouldnt use long term.  But I'm curious.  Apparently the only participate in this thread who has used a tension tool had good things to say about it, albeit in a different setting and application.  Are you certain there is not a viable place in your tool box for such a device?

[dikman]

In answer to your last question, in my case no. While I am an inveterate collector of things (tools?) I see no value to me in such a device for my small number of sewing machines. If I run into a tension problem and I think it's the bobbin then I will tweak it by hand, realistically  the amount of tweaking will be quite small anyway. I can, of course, see the value of such a gauge in the case Chris mentioned, it would be much easier to keep multiple machines all set the same.

Now, if said gauge could also be used to measure trigger pull on revolvers then that would be useful to me.

[chrisash]

I thought you Aussies had your guns taken away by the government

[Silverd]

I

33 minutes ago, dikman said:

In answer to your last question, in my case no. While I am an inveterate collector of things (tools?) I see no value to me in such a device for my small number of sewing machines. If I run into a tension problem and I think it's the bobbin then I will tweak it by hand, realistically  the amount of tweaking will be quite small anyway. I can, of course, see the value of such a gauge in the case Chris mentioned, it would be much easier to keep multiple machines all set the same.

Now, if said gauge could also be used to measure trigger pull on revolvers then that would be useful to me.

The sewing community collects more than one kind of iron...

I'll let you know about the versatility if I proceed.

[Bert51]

Yeah, they took some off some people, but not all and they gave other the power to take your licenses.

Bert.

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, Silverd said:

Has anyone experience actualy using a tension gauge?

Indeed, there was a discussion about using bobbin tension gauges back in November and December.

[Bert51]

Thanks Wiz, I must book mark these pages.

You might find this interesting reading also.

Bert.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Bert51

[Silverd]

Wow

I'm not alone as some would suggest.  Great stuff this tension setting quest.  I'm a beliver in science being a mechanical engineer and all.  We have a tendency to put stock in measuring over trial and error methods of which there are a plenty of everyday as it is.  Sure I can get to a ballanced stitch without anything but a screwdriver, but if there is a tool that can reduce set up time at any point in the process, count me in.

Silverd

Thank you BTW for the links on this topic.

Just now, Silverd said:

Silverd

 

 

[Bert51]

I have several bigger sewing machine and one of them being a Singer 132K6. I have two bobbin cases for it, one for 20M and the other for 40M (at the moment), as it can be a pain to change thread sizes with out mucking around.

Being able to swap them over quickly means my tension is already in the ballpark of where I need it to be.

Bert.

[Silverd]

Sounds like a tension gauge might help.  The cost of these devices is low therefore risk is low should you not find suitable application.  I'd be interested in hearing how it works out should you decide to proceed.

 

Silverd

[Gymnast]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 7:00 AM, Silverd said:

I'm not alone as some would suggest.  Great stuff this tension setting quest.  I'm a beliver in science being a mechanical engineer and all.  We have a tendency to put stock in measuring over trial and error methods of which there are a plenty of everyday as it is.  Sure I can get to a ballanced stitch without anything but a screwdriver, but if there is a tool that can reduce set up time at any point in the process, count me in.

Yes, I agree with you, but it may be because I am an engineer too. Perhaps it just work for some of us. I did start this other thread about the subject in July:

And made this little video about it: https://youtu.be/PAUJ1cVJEmA

Edited March 24, 2020 by Gymnast