Adler 69 vs Seiko LSC-8BV

[AlexandreP]

Hi everyone,

First i want to thank for this wonderful forum for all its useful information.

I'm about to buy my first leather sewing machine and i have the opportunity to choose between a Adler 069 and a Seiko LSC-8BV ( second hand both, ready to work).

Does anyone wich one of these two machines are better to sew veg tan leather wallets and handbags?

Thanks in advance,

Alex

[Wizcrafts]

There was a discussion, in 2010, about the same Seiko and a slightly different model Adler cylinder arm machine. The same suggestions would probably apply.

[Constabulary]

agree with what Cobra Steve said in the linked thread - SEIKO parts are cheaper and the LSC-8BV is using Singer 111 presser feet which are very easy to get and fairly cheap often. Many other parts are Singer type too like the tension unit and so forth. So If I had to chose I´d take the Seiko.

 

[AlexandreP]

Ok. Thank you both. Because i have the possibility of buying one of these machines i am very interested in knowing what's the best catch. Although in another forum someone told me that whenever you can get an Adler, you should take it because they are the best around according to some specialist. Could someone clarify on that? At least for the best choice between these two ( Adler & Seiko)

Thanks, 

Alex

[Constabulary]

Question is what means "the best around" and who is a specialist? People who own a Adler will tell you Adler it best, Pfaff owners tell you Pfaff is best. Seiko owners will tell you the same because most machine owner do not have a 1:1 comparison with other brands. You can be sure both machines will do their job as long as they are set up properly. A proper set up Seiko is better than a poorly set up or worn out Adler an the other way around. So its not only the brand or the workmanship you also have to consider the grade of wear and if the machines have constantly been serviced.

I have owned beautiful 1950´s Adler 69 and I can tell you it was not possible to get the forward and reverse stitch length equal - I know there should be and eccentric behind the lock lever for this adjustment but there wasn´t one. Why? Because (I think) it was a dedicated binder machine for some sort of special binding operation. Don´t ask what operation in particular, I was not able to find out even Dürkopp Adler did not know the subclass anymore. So I was not happy at all with this machine. But that does not make the Adler 69 a bad machine in general - it was just the wrong machine for the job.

So - we all do not know how your machines look like and how they are set up so my statements is rather "general". Adler parts and accessories are very expensive sometimes. And the Seiko´s are mainly based on Singer machines and they share a lot of parts and accessories. That makes the parts a lot cheaper. Other brands like Juki, Consew, Mitsubishi and many of the nowadays Chinese made machines are using Singer parts as well. So parts are rather cheap and easy to get. And that makes the Seiko the more economical machine  in the long view.

So basically there is no answer to which machine brand is good or bad - question is are the machines set up for the job and how is their condition. So the Adler will not disappoint you if properly set up / set up for your job and I can make the same statement for the Seiko.

Best advice is to test both machines and then decide which one works better for you / the job. Sometimes it´s just a feeling that makes the difference.

 

[AlexandreP]

3 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Question is what means "the best around" and who is a specialist? People who own a Adler will tell you Adler it best, Pfaff owners tell you Pfaff is best. Seiko owners will tell you the same because most machine owner do not have a 1:1 comparison with other brands. You can be sure both machines will do their job as long as they are set up properly. A proper set up Seiko is better than a poorly set up or worn out Adler an the other way around. So its not only the brand or the workmanship you also have to consider the grade of wear and if the machines have constantly been serviced.

I have owned beautiful 1950´s Adler 69 and I can tell you it was not possible to get the forward and reverse stitch length equal - I know there should be and eccentric behind the lock lever for this adjustment but there wasn´t one. Why? Because (I think) it was a dedicated binder machine for some sort of special binding operation. Don´t ask what operation in particular, I was not able to find out even Dürkopp Adler did not know the subclass anymore. So I was not happy at all with this machine. But that does not make the Adler 69 a bad machine in general - it was just the wrong machine for the job.

So - we all do not know how your machines look like and how they are set up so my statements is rather "general". Adler parts and accessories are very expensive sometimes. And the Seiko´s are mainly based on Singer machines and they share a lot of parts and accessories. That makes the parts a lot cheaper. Other brands like Juki, Consew, Mitsubishi and many of the nowadays Chinese made machines are using Singer parts as well. So parts are rather cheap and easy to get. And that makes the Seiko the more economical machine  in the long view.

So basically there is no answer to which machine brand is good or bad - question is are the machines set up for the job and how is their condition. So the Adler will not disappoint you if properly set up / set up for your job and I can make the same statement for the Seiko.

Best advice is to test both machines and then decide which one works better for you / the job. Sometimes it´s just a feeling that makes the difference.

 

Many thanks for the time to explain it. As for the condition of the machines they both are in condition to work with 6 months guarantee by law. They are at a sewing machine store right now. Also there is Pfaff 335 available but the owner of the store is going to change it for a servo motor. You, see the man knows a lot of machines but not so much of leathercraft so i felt the necessity of being guided in some way what will be the proper machine for me. My first choice was to get the Seiko but i wanted to inform myself first...

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, AlexandreP said:

Also there is Pfaff 335 available but the owner of the store is going to change it for a servo motor.

The Pfaff 335 machines are frequently sold as synchronized edge binder machines that lack 4 motion feed dogs (no drop feed). This type of machine will shorten your stitch length considerably as the feed dogs move forward and backward above the throat plate. OTOH, if you are looking to use the machine to sew edge binding onto things, it will be a good choice.

[AlexandreP]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The Pfaff 335 machines are frequently sold as synchronized edge binder machines that lack 4 motion feed dogs (no drop feed). This type of machine will shorten your stitch length considerably as the feed dogs move forward and backward above the throat plate. OTOH, if you are looking to use the machine to sew edge binding onto things, it will be a good choice.

The other two are also good for this (edge binding) or are not so good? It will be my first sewing machine so all the knowledge you can share about this technical stuff will save me at least of some sorrow ,

[dikman]

If it's going to be your first machine I would advise against the Pfaff. As Wiz said many were sold as binders, which limits their usefulness. The Seiko would be my choice, assuming it's in good condition and sewing well. You really want a compound feed machine, which the Seiko is.

[Constabulary]

Pfaff 335, Adler 69, Seiko LSC-8BV and to my knowledge all cylinder arm machines with horizontal hook (bobbin loading from the side) have a plain back and forth going feed dog which is not oscillating. They are all in the same class. They all can be set up as "plain sewer" or binding machine. Some come as plain sewer some come set up as binding machines. The differences are the arm cover plate, different needle plate / throat plate and a different feed dog + different presser foot set - thats basically the main difference.

If the machine is set up as a "plain sewer" (not binding) its even better because the parts you need for setting them up as a binder machine are often cheaper and easier to find then the parts for setting it up as a plain sewer (f.i. for Pfaff 335 and Seiko LSC-8BV) Sounds stupid? But thats how it is.

Feed dog can have different size needle holes. So when you are checking out the machines check the foot lift height. Especially the Adler could be of a subclass with lower foot lift. And check if they can handle the max. needle size and thread size you want to use - usually its 138 or metric #20 thread.

 

 

[AlexandreP]

12 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Pfaff 335, Adler 69, Seiko LSC-8BV and to my knowledge all cylinder arm machines with horizontal hook (bobbin loading from the side) have a plain back and forth going feed dog which is not oscillating. They are all in the same class. They all can be set up as "plain sewer" or binding machine. Some come as plain sewer some come set up as binding machines. The differences are the arm cover plate, different needle plate / throat plate and a different feed dog + different presser foot set - thats basically the main difference.

If the machine is set up as a "plain sewer" (not binding) its even better because the parts you need for setting them up as a binder machine are often cheaper and easier to find then the parts for setting it up as a plain sewer (f.i. for Pfaff 335 and Seiko LSC-8BV) Sounds stupid? But thats how it is.

Feed dog can have different size needle holes. So when you are checking out the machines check the foot lift height. Especially the Adler could be of a subclass with lower foot lift. And check if they can handle the max. needle size and thread size you want to use - usually its 138 or metric #20 thread.

 

 

Thanks a lot for the advice. Now i know a little more about this machines. 

I have a few questions more:

-what thickness of leather they usually sew?

- Can they handle veg tan leather?

-Also the seller as a Necchi 840 wich i saw a post but i didn't understand if this machine sews veg tan leather, and if it's at the same level of Adler 069 & Seiko LSC-8BV?

[Zac]

Hi Alexandre,

I own a Seiko LCW-8BLV which i think is similar to the machine you are looking at. As mentioned above mine was set us a synchronised binder and I had to change over the parts to make it a plain sewing machine. It was a pretty straight forward change apart from changing the feed dog mechanism I did have to get a sewing machine mechanic to help me with that. It’s sewing very well now though

I mostly make wallets and bags with mine and now that it is set up properly it sews very well, even with thicker veg tan and with many layers of thin veg tan (which I had always had issues with previous to owning this machine). The largest thread I have used is metric #20 and that seems to work fine.

 

It’s a well made Japanese machine and it’s handy I can easily jump on eBay and buy cheap feet if needed.

I have no experience with the Adler so can’t compare.

If you have any other questions let me know. It’s nice to be the one who can help rather than needing it for a change!

Cheers,

Zac

[AlexandreP]

On 4/6/2020 at 8:22 AM, Zac said:

Hi Alexandre,

I own a Seiko LCW-8BLV which i think is similar to the machine you are looking at. As mentioned above mine was set us a synchronised binder and I had to change over the parts to make it a plain sewing machine. It was a pretty straight forward change apart from changing the feed dog mechanism I did have to get a sewing machine mechanic to help me with that. It’s sewing very well now though

I mostly make wallets and bags with mine and now that it is set up properly it sews very well, even with thicker veg tan and with many layers of thin veg tan (which I had always had issues with previous to owning this machine). The largest thread I have used is metric #20 and that seems to work fine.

 

It’s a well made Japanese machine and it’s handy I can easily jump on eBay and buy cheap feet if needed.

I have no experience with the Adler so can’t compare.

If you have any other questions let me know. It’s nice to be the one who can help rather than needing it for a change!

Cheers,

Zac

Thanks Zac. Useful information. I'll keep it in mind.