Sewing Machine Needle Systems Question

[gunfighter48]

I have a cylinder bed machine that uses the system 328 needles and it sews my heavy leather just fine. I am thinking about getting a flat bed machine for doing notebook covers, leather pistol and revolver bags with zippered closures, light weight leather items (8 oz down to 3 - 4 oz leather). I have found a number of machines that look like they will do the job and most of them use DPX17, 135 X 17, 16 X 231, DBX1 needle systems. Will the needles these machines use be strong enough to handle 8 oz and smaller veg tanned leather?

Thanks for you advice.

John

[bcurrier]

Of the systems listed, DPx17 would be the most suitable at the heavier end, any of the others for the lighter stuff. 135x17 and DBx1 are basically the same and are very common. You want to cast the decision toward where most of the work will be, though, because needle availability in the various leather point types will be a factor. You can get very small leather needles (say 9 or 10) in DBx1, for example, but not in DPx17, where, conversely they are available up to a 23 or so. Personally, I'd get a few needles at both ends of the range I wanted to use first, then sew one of the machines off with some samples using my own threads.

Bill

[Art]

DPx17 and 135x17 are essentially the same system, DPx1 and 135x1 are also about the same.

135x17 is a size often used for fabric/canvas etc and usually needle points are for fabric. 135x16 is available in various leather points. 135x16 interchanges with 135x17 but sometimes timing can be different, usually not enough to make a difference so lets say they interchange.

There are many machines out there in 135x17/16 needle systems and they are excellent for the purposes you intended. This system is popular on new as well as older machines.

If you see a 190 needle system, this is what Pfaff uses, like I have said before, nothing fits a Pfaff but Pfaff. This is also a medium duty system and would be excellent for your needs.

I hope this clears things up.

Art

I have a cylinder bed machine that uses the system 328 needles and it sews my heavy leather just fine. I am thinking about getting a flat bed machine for doing notebook covers, leather pistol and revolver bags with zippered closures, light weight leather items (8 oz down to 3 - 4 oz leather). I have found a number of machines that look like they will do the job and most of them use DPX17, 135 X 17, 16 X 231, DBX1 needle systems. Will the needles these machines use be strong enough to handle 8 oz and smaller veg tanned leather?

Thanks for you advice.

John

[Hidemechanic]

This isn't exactly what you are going for but I wanted to add that I made a flatbed extention to add to my cylender mechine for doing the kind of projects you are talking about. Though it is still limited at doing fine stiching, it does give me the option to do more jobs on my big stitcher by changing to smaller needle and thread. Comes in handy for other big jobs to like saddle bags, saddle pads, skirts, whatever I want to sew on a flat surface. Cheers,GH

[Artisan Dave]

Hey Gunfighter,

Just a small point (excuse the pun) about those needles. Everything I am referring to below follows the Schmetz system of classification.

135 X 17 is a Fabric Point Needle. The system 135 x 16 TRI is the same size needle but the point is for leather. A 135 x 16 TRI has the same Diamond Shaped Point as the 794D system that is used in the Heavier Stitchers like the Toro 3000, etc.

I would suggest you try the 135 x 16 TRI point needles for most of your leather work. For very light leathers, like deerskin, stick with the 135 x 17 as the leather point needles would create too large a hole for proper stitching.

Artisan carries these Schmetz needles in stock - as do many other Industrial Sewing Supply outlets.

I hope this helps.

Dave

[bcurrier]

DPx17 and 135x17 are essentially the same system ...

You're correct, my error.

Bill

[Art]

Hi Bill,

They're still trying ever so hard to get us (US) to go metric. They've almost done it with size, I still think in Singer and order in metric. Damned foreigners. Artisan has SAE screws in their big machines, but the medium machines (797, 618) are all metric. Course if I had it my way they would be still be using the Whitworth system (remember the MGA and Bugeye Sprite, and the 3000 Healey?).

Art

You're correct, my error.

Bill

[wolvenstien]

Damned foreigners or not.... I honestly think we should go metric on everything and loose the SAE system..... one universal measuring system like they intend to do with the universal money....

[bcurrier]

They're still trying ever so hard to get us (US) to go metric. They've almost done it with size, I still think in Singer and order in metric.

... Course if I had it my way they would be still be using the Whitworth system (remember the MGA and Bugeye Sprite, and the 3000 Healey?).

Metric needle size at least makes sense in that it IS a size (nanometers), unlike Singer, which is an arbitrary system and whose numbers look the same as a lot of other sizing schemes. I'm almost there with metric, I just have to force myself to think of the metric size first.

I don't see the needle system issue going away though. I like to reference back to CANU, as it's the closest to a cross-reference available for compatible systems, plus the point designations are consistent. But it still doesn't REALLY cross-reference comprehensively. Take a DBx17 (CANU 37:20) vs. a CANU 38:00, for example.

And yes, unfortunately I am old enough to remember the Whitworth system, including arguments over whose thread specs were better and why!

Bill

[gunfighter48]

Thanks guys for all the info, just what I was looking for. I've decided to stay with my heavy stitcher for the present time. If Uncle Sam sends me a $600 check I might think about a lighter weight machine.

John