Inexpensive diamond Stitching chisel for making stitch holes in holster ?

[OLESKIVER]

IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR AMERICAN MADE, THEN YOU NEED LOOK NO FURTHER THAN CS OSBORN TOOLS. THEY HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS FOR 190 YRS. YEP! 190 YRS. THE SAME FAMILY OWNS IT { 8TH GENERATION} IF YOU HAVE BEEN IN THIS HOBBY FOR A LITTLE WHILE, MIGHT i SUGGEST THAT YOU START INVESTING IN IT. BY THAT i MEAN THE PRICE SHOULD BE COMPARED TO THE QUALITY AND DURABILITY OF TYHE ITEM YOU ARE BUYING. OSBORN TOOLS WILL OUTLAST YOU AND POSSIBLY YOUR KIDS ALSO. WHEN i LIVED IN SILVER CITY NM. i BOUGHT A SADDLERS COMPASS THROUGH A SADDLEMAKER THERE. HE GAVE ME A USED ROUND KNIFE ALSO. i STILL HAVE BOTH AND USE THEM TILL THIS DAY. THE COMPASS IS 50 YRS OLD AND THE KNIFE IS OVER 50. TO GET TO THEIR WEBSITE YOU KNEED TO PUNCH IN  OSBORN LEATHERWORKING TOOLS.COM, NOT CS OSBORN, THAT WILL ONLY GET YOU A CATALOG, NO PRICES. THESE ARE THE BEST LEATHER WORKING TOOLS IN THE WORLD. PERIOD! EVERY MANFG. TRIES TO COPY THEM. THEIR ROTARY PUNCH IS THE BENCH MARK THAT OTHER CO. TRY FOR. SO IS THEIR ROUND KNIFE. BEFORE YOU GET TURNED OFF BY THINKING THE PRICE IS HIGH{ ACTUALLY MOST OF THEIR STUFF IS LOWER OR SAME} TRY FIGURING LIKE THIS... PRICE DIVIDED BY LONGEVITY  IE SAY A PUNCH COSTS $50, AND WILL LAST A MIN. OF 50 YRS. THAT IS A SPENDITURE OF $1 A YEAR FOR IT. i NOW HAVE ALL 35 OF THEIR END STRAP PUNCHES.{WEAVER DOESN'T THAT MANY} THEIR AWLS ARE AMONG THE BEST ALSO AND THEY OFFER A LOT OF DIFFERENT LENGTHS AND STYLES. HOPE THIS HAS HELPED YOU. YOU CAN NEVER GO WRONG WITH QUIALITY. THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE IS EXTROIDINARY ALSO. HAPPY TOOLING

 

[bcraig]

21 hours ago, OLESKIVER said:

IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR AMERICAN MADE, THEN YOU NEED LOOK NO FURTHER THAN CS OSBORN TOOLS. THEY HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS FOR 190 YRS. YEP! 190 YRS. THE SAME FAMILY OWNS IT { 8TH GENERATION} IF YOU HAVE BEEN IN THIS HOBBY FOR A LITTLE WHILE, MIGHT i SUGGEST THAT YOU START INVESTING IN IT. BY THAT i MEAN THE PRICE SHOULD BE COMPARED TO THE QUALITY AND DURABILITY OF TYHE ITEM YOU ARE BUYING. OSBORN TOOLS WILL OUTLAST YOU AND POSSIBLY YOUR KIDS ALSO. WHEN i LIVED IN SILVER CITY NM. i BOUGHT A SADDLERS COMPASS THROUGH A SADDLEMAKER THERE. HE GAVE ME A USED ROUND KNIFE ALSO. i STILL HAVE BOTH AND USE THEM TILL THIS DAY. THE COMPASS IS 50 YRS OLD AND THE KNIFE IS OVER 50. TO GET TO THEIR WEBSITE YOU KNEED TO PUNCH IN  OSBORN LEATHERWORKING TOOLS.COM, NOT CS OSBORN, THAT WILL ONLY GET YOU A CATALOG, NO PRICES. THESE ARE THE BEST LEATHER WORKING TOOLS IN THE WORLD. PERIOD! EVERY MANFG. TRIES TO COPY THEM. THEIR ROTARY PUNCH IS THE BENCH MARK THAT OTHER CO. TRY FOR. SO IS THEIR ROUND KNIFE. BEFORE YOU GET TURNED OFF BY THINKING THE PRICE IS HIGH{ ACTUALLY MOST OF THEIR STUFF IS LOWER OR SAME} TRY FIGURING LIKE THIS... PRICE DIVIDED BY LONGEVITY  IE SAY A PUNCH COSTS $50, AND WILL LAST A MIN. OF 50 YRS. THAT IS A SPENDITURE OF $1 A YEAR FOR IT. i NOW HAVE ALL 35 OF THEIR END STRAP PUNCHES.{WEAVER DOESN'T THAT MANY} THEIR AWLS ARE AMONG THE BEST ALSO AND THEY OFFER A LOT OF DIFFERENT LENGTHS AND STYLES. HOPE THIS HAS HELPED YOU. YOU CAN NEVER GO WRONG WITH QUIALITY. THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE IS EXTROIDINARY ALSO. HAPPY TOOLING

 

I went and looked and they do not appear to offer a DIAMOND stitching Chisel at all.
And they do not have a stitching chisel that offers 5 SPI.

[fredk]

afaia ALL STITCHING chisels are diamond and only lacing chisels are available in diamond or parallel tooth. The reason most sellers don't say the stitching chisel is diamond tooth is because they all are and its a given

PS. We have given you several options. You have now become a Troll. From here on I'm adding you to my ignore list as I do not feed trolls

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by fredk

[bcraig]

16 minutes ago, fredk said:

afaia ALL STITCHING chisels are diamond and only lacing chisels are available in diamond or parallel tooth. The reason most sellers don't say the stitching chisel is diamond tooth is because they all are and its a given

PS. We have given you several options. You have now become a Troll. From here on I'm adding you to my ignore list as I do not feed trolls

 

I looked at the Pictures of the Chisels and they did not appear to me to be shaped like a Diamond Chisel.
I am merely try to find what I want.
I am not a Troll ,just a 60 year old man trying to find exactly what I want.
HOWEVER if you CHOOSE to consider Me  a Troll and want to add me to your Ignore list then by all means do so.
That is Merely your Your Mistaken Opinion and your Mistake and I Promise you that I will Lose no sleep over your Mistake.

[Spyros]

Osborne should probably try a little harder with their website, those photos look like they were shot on a phone and then someone cut them out of the background in Microsoft Paint.

At least Blanchard is also selling on Etsy and that forced them to upload some bigger photos so you can see what you're actually buying.  And even they, I don't get it, would it kill them to get some new punches to stamp their logo properly?  This looks like a photo of a breakfast fork lying on a public toilet floor.

 

[Hardrada]

19 hours ago, bcraig said:

I looked at the Pictures of the Chisels and they did not appear to me to be shaped like a Diamond Chisel.
I am merely try to find what I want.
I am not a Troll ,just a 60 year old man trying to find exactly what I want.
HOWEVER if you CHOOSE to consider Me  a Troll and want to add me to your Ignore list then by all means do so.
That is Merely your Your Mistaken Opinion and your Mistake and I Promise you that I will Lose no sleep over your Mistake.

Bcraig, the bit about "all STITCHING chisels" being diamond-shaped is wrong. Some chisels are European style and their holes are not diamonds but slits like these: \ \ \ \ \.

I just got me a pair of those from KS Blade. They are NOT cheap, though. (https://ksbladepunch.com/product/pricking-irons-black)**

Seiwa makes an economical version of the European style chisels, which you can get from Goodsjapan.com; I wasn't impressed with the reviews I watched of them, though. I've no problem swearing by the Seiwa diamond-shaped, but their European style just didn't rock my boat.

Part of the confusion with these items comes from diluting the definitions/boundaries of two different items that are used for stitching: i.e. PRICKING IRONS vs. stitching CHISELS. The exhibit Spyros posted above from Blanchard is a European style PRICKING IRON, whereas the one in the picture below is a Seiwa diamond CHISEL.

 

Note that even Goodsjapan.com is labeling the latter as a 'pricking iron' (AND as a chisel ). See? Even suppliers do it, adding to the confusion.

So, what's the difference then?

A pricking iron is designed to MARK where the stitching holes on the leather will go. The holes are actually made by piercing the leather with a stitching awl, whose blade is usually diamond-shaped. Pricking irons are NOT designed nor meant to pierce (punch) through the leather and make the holes –although I reckon it's possible to use them as punches if you strike them hard enough with a mallet and your leather is not too thick.

A stitching punch, on the other hand is designed to not just mark where the stitching holes will go but to make them as well. They are punches—built strong enough to pierce through thick layers of leather without breaking. So, you no longer need an awl to stitch. Chisels are now preferred by many leather workers because it speeds up the process and neats up the stitching. As mentioned above, you can have chisels in both diamond and European style. They even make round ones (https://ksbladepunch.com/product/round-dent-black), and, yes, for lacing too. Lacing punches, however, are not angled, but horizontally oriented, like so: – – – –.

In your specific case, I would recommend the Seiwa diamond chisels: https://www.goodsjapan.com/seiwa-diamond-leather-stitching-chisel-leathercraft-pricking-iron-tool-6x4mm/a-19162

I linked you to the 4 mm version, but they have them in other stitching measurements, such as 3 mm. It all depends on what you're making. See here: https://www.ianatkinson.net/leather/leatherguide.htm#stitching

_____________________________

**Again, you have a manufacturer adding to the confusion by labeling a punch a 'pricking iron'.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Hardrada

[Hardrada]

14 hours ago, Spyros said:

Osborne should probably try a little harder with their website, those photos look like they were shot on a phone and then someone cut them out of the background in Microsoft Paint.

At least Blanchard is also selling on Etsy and that forced them to upload some bigger photos so you can see what you're actually buying.  And even they, I don't get it, would it kill them to get some new punches to stamp their logo properly?  This looks like a photo of a breakfast fork lying on a public toilet floor.

 

Then, there are some resellers of Blanchard with pics like these:

https://craftntools.com/vergez-blanchard/pricking-irons/pricking-iron-size-9

Edited July 13, 2020 by Hardrada

[Spyros]

2 hours ago, Hardrada said:

Then, there are some resellers of Blanchard with pics like these:

https://craftntools.com/vergez-blanchard/pricking-irons/pricking-iron-size-9

They're good photos, for the most part, with the occasional crappy one thrown in there for good measure

Sorry, I'm neat picking obviously, but having done product photography in the past it amazes me how little care is taken sometimes, even for expensive items.  By definition, crafts people are supposed to be sensitive to aesthetics, right?  I think when you're selling to them, even if it's a totally utilitarian item, it pays to appeal to as many aesthetic criteria as you can.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Spyros

[Hardrada]

1 hour ago, Spyros said:

They're good photos, for the most part, with the occasional crappy one thrown in there for good measure

Sorry, I'm neat picking obviously, but having done product photography in the past it amazes me how little care is taken sometimes, even for expensive items.  By definition, crafts people are supposed to be sensitive to aesthetics, right?  I think when you're selling to them, even if it's a totally utilitarian item, it pays to appeal to as many aesthetic criteria as you can.

I hear you. I've done commercial photo work too. I always tried to make business owners understand that specially now in the age of the Internet, when customers who buy online cannot physically handle an item it is all the more paramount to convey as many of the item's properties (texture, dimensions, &c., &c.) visually, which requires proper lighting and styling. But no, they always think that all it takes is an elcheapo lightbox off Amazon and an iPhone and can thus 'do it in house', don't they?

[Spyros]

On 7/12/2020 at 12:56 AM, Matt S said:

Osborne tools are made in the US. Some smaller/artisan makers out there too, as well as quality tools made by nations which align closer with your values than China (George Barnsley of England for instance, and Blanchard of France). Don't be surprised at the price being at least 5x times that of a Chinese tool -- it's amazing what you can save by employing virtual slaves, ignoring environmental concerns and having your shipping prices subsidised by the government in order to undercut the manufacturing capabilities of foreign nations.

I am the last person to argue with this, people who work need to get paid a decent wage, and the whole planet needs to come down like a tonne of bricks on factories that don't take every possible measure to contain pollution.  Absolutely no argument there.

Now, about Blanchard, to me their irons look suspiciously simple to produce and their prices seem outrageous even with French wages and EU environmental regulations. But I will not argue with that either because I am not a metalworker, and someone will tell me that their grandpa inherited a Blanchard iron from his grandpa and it still works great today because it's made from special unobtainium.  Fine, I don't have the knowledge to argue.

However, I do know woodworking.  And when I see the price on this thing I know that someone is taking the piss.

https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/515613297/leather-stitching-clamp-verni-vergez?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=vergez+blanchard&ref=sr_gallery-1-14&frs=1    

This doesn't cost more than $30 whether you use a CNC in Vietnam or in Switzerland.