Press Plate Embossing Plate Maker?

[whitakermk]

I broke my arm earlier in the summer and tooling and stamping is still a bit rough holding the Maul. Carving is really a chore! I was wondering if anyone knows a company that can take one of my tooled items and make a press plate/embossing plate out of it?

[RockyAussie]

1 hour ago, whitakermk said:

I broke my arm earlier in the summer and tooling and stamping is still a bit rough holding the Maul. Carving is really a chore! I was wondering if anyone knows a company that can take one of my tooled items and make a press plate/embossing plate out of it?

How large are they and what press or equipment do you have for doing the job? A couple of pictures and the type of details you want would help as well. If it is simple then converting a picture into a black and white line drawing and then getting a magnesium plate made may be the way to go but if you need higher detail the casting with a high impact casting epoxy may be required. If tat is the case then it is best if the original carving is done extra deeply to get a better impression when you use the stamp. The bigger the stamp means that you need to be able to have a press that can handle the extra pressure involved.

[whitakermk]

1 hour ago, RockyAussie said:

How large are they and what press or equipment do you have for doing the job? A couple of pictures and the type of details you want would help as well. If it is simple then converting a picture into a black and white line drawing and then getting a magnesium plate made may be the way to go but if you need higher detail the casting with a high impact casting epoxy may be required. If tat is the case then it is best if the original carving is done extra deeply to get a better impression when you use the stamp. The bigger the stamp means that you need to be able to have a press that can handle the extra pressure involved.

Hey RockyAussie - sorry, I thought it was a straight forward question.

Here's some more info.

I'm asking for both my home shop and my work shop. I have table top and full size presses that I use when working on my own stuff at the house shop and the big ones at the saddle shop. I'm talking about clickers and presses for making upwards of 20-30 saddles a week. Toaster size to the size of a walk in closet.

And yes, tooling would of course be deeper for making press plates in order to pick up the detail of hand tooling.

The old ones (press plates) we used 30 to 40 years ago were made of brass. Then, the newer ones, about 20 years ago, are made of resin. 

Sizes range from a couple of inches to a full size saddle back housing, holster, etc. The largest used at work could be 2 feet long while the smallest could be the size of a deck of cards.

Here's the issue - the people that made our press plates for the saddle shop are dead and the companies we used are shuttered.

The last time plates were made was over three decades ago.

We've tried using vector graphics (black and white line drawings via illustrator, adobe, etc) for scanned patterns for 3D printing and laser engraved press plates but have found them to be too generic and lacking the "Feel" of the tooling done on real leather.

In other words, a BW graphic for having a oval makers mark or basic leather embossing stamp for a hobby crafter is not what I am asking about. I have providers for that. I buy those all of the time.

I'm asking about someone that I can send a hand carved and hand tooled piece of leather to in order to have an exact copy made in order to reuse as an embossing plate. 

Now that my arm is healing, but weak, it opened the door to finding a provider for me and my small stuff and possibly for using at work for other items.

I've attached a press/embossing plate picture of one of our plates that's about 30 years old. It was made from hand stamping from a piece of leather from a maker in our shop. I would attach some smaller and larger examples but my attachment size is limited.

Thanks! Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[chrisash]

I would try to contact Sergey Neskromniy who designs a lot of stamps for embossing, I presume he uses modern CAD machines and at least worth talking to, he advertises on this forum and also  on Etsy https://www.etsy.com/uk/people/sergeyneskromniy

 

[RockyAussie]

OK well I am over in OZ and that makes it hard but I have made a few of these stamps for myself in the past using a high impact casting epoxy.https://www.itwpf.com.au/epirez/epoxy-casting-compound-8837/

You will need to get some mould release spray as well. After sealing the leather well you build a dam around the part you want cast with timber strips or leather tacked down then give it plenty of coats of the mould release. After that you get a piece of steel big enough to cover the size at least 1/4" thick and say up 3/8" if its 6" square and thicker if bigger still. You pour in the mix making sure to not get any bubbles then place the metal piece on top and let it set. The heat will possibly remove the seal coat some and you will need to carefully peel the leather out of the back but it should do the job you want in the end. 

[whitakermk]

12 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

OK well I am over in OZ and that makes it hard but I have made a few of these stamps for myself in the past using a high impact casting epoxy.https://www.itwpf.com.au/epirez/epoxy-casting-compound-8837/

You will need to get some mould release spray as well. After sealing the leather well you build a dam around the part you want cast with timber strips or leather tacked down then give it plenty of coats of the mould release. After that you get a piece of steel big enough to cover the size at least 1/4" thick and say up 3/8" if its 6" square and thicker if bigger still. You pour in the mix making sure to not get any bubbles then place the metal piece on top and let it set. The heat will possibly remove the seal coat some and you will need to carefully peel the leather out of the back but it should do the job you want in the end. 

Funny you should mention that! I tried it using some left over resin from working on my boat while watching some Indy 500 laps today - the results were... ok - not worth using on a item for sale or anything. I like the plate idea. And it did remove the release spray and some of the leather top grain but I did the test on some tooling stuff I was practicing on. I'm going to keep tinkering with that idea. The main issue was the resin plate I made seemed tacky after each press test. It pulls on the leather a bit. But I clean it, dry it, and it's not tacky - but when I press again - the leather (wet like I normally do with pressing or tooling) sticks to the plate. I think that may be an issue with my resin and hardener ratio. But I am going to keep playing with making my own. I have a huge can of resin left over from the boat work so I might as well play around with it!

[whitakermk]

15 hours ago, chrisash said:

I would try to contact Sergey Neskromniy who designs a lot of stamps for embossing, I presume he uses modern CAD machines and at least worth talking to, he advertises on this forum and also  on Etsy https://www.etsy.com/uk/people/sergeyneskromniy

 

I've seen some of his Etsy stamps - looks like some good work!

[RockyAussie]

2 minutes ago, whitakermk said:

Funny you should mention that! I tried it using some left over resin from working on my boat while watching some Indy 500 laps today - the results were... ok - not worth using on a item for sale or anything. I like the plate idea. And it did remove the release spray and some of the leather top grain but I did the test on some tooling stuff I was practicing on. I'm going to keep tinkering with that idea. The main issue was the resin plate I made seemed tacky after each press test. It pulls on the leather a bit. But I clean it, dry it, and it's not tacky - but when I press again - the leather (wet like I normally do with pressing or tooling) sticks to the plate. I think that may be an issue with my resin and hardener ratio. But I am going to keep playing with making my own. I have a huge can of resin left over from the boat work so I might as well play around with it!

If it is the same stuff I used I would say it may be your mixture ratio. I did one plate for a cowboy boot cigarette lighter holder and I did thousands of those with out any problems. Dampen the leather and let it sit until firm mellow and bang under my clicker press ...presto

[whitakermk]

1 hour ago, RockyAussie said:

If it is the same stuff I used I would say it may be your mixture ratio. I did one plate for a cowboy boot cigarette lighter holder and I did thousands of those with out any problems. Dampen the leather and let it sit until firm mellow and bang under my clicker press ...presto

Mine was Bondo brand resin and hardener. Auto and Boat resin - If I can't get better results with tinkering around this week I'll buy some craft/hobby casting resin for sure. Thanks for the tip about your success with the embossing plate you made - makes me want to keep playing around with it.

[RockyAussie]

You're welcome.....dont forget to think about the registration points as well.

[whitakermk]

What did you use to seal your leather before pouring the resin? All I did was do what I normally do - rub with Aussie conditioner, waited, sealed with Resolene, waited and then poured.

 

[RockyAussie]

6 hours ago, whitakermk said:

What did you use to seal your leather before pouring the resin? All I did was do what I normally do - rub with Aussie conditioner, waited, sealed with Resolene, waited and then poured.

 

I tried a few different things along that line and found that the heat generated as the mix goes hard managed to soften/melt and pull it up in most cases. The mould release spray helps but I never found a perfect answer to that part of it. Problem is the more you put on the more detail gets lost so I just accepted that it was a 1 time master. Let me know if you find a better solution.

[Lil Doodler]

Hi,

May I ask?

Could these embossing plates work on chrome tan leather as well?

I'm interested in art nouveau. There was a lot of leather items made commercially a century ago using that style of design.

I've been wondering if they did (they must have?) use embossing plates.

Most of the items were fairly small - under 8" x 8", and all seemed to use chrome tan leather.

To give you an idea of the type of finished product,

Here's a couple examples of purses

 

 

If they didn't use an embossing plate, how do you think these were made.

They don't look carved.

 

Thanks in advance for your help

[RockyAussie]

2 hours ago, Lil Doodler said:

ould these embossing plates work on chrome tan leather as well?

Chrome tan comes in a very wide range of types but yes you can emboss onto a lot of these types but some of the spongy types can be difficult. Sometimes this type of products can have a packing piece attached to the back to help hold the shape and detail of the design better.

[Lil Doodler]

Thanks for the information!

Much appreciated

[jrny4wrd]

On 8/22/2020 at 9:02 PM, RockyAussie said:

How large are they and what press or equipment do you have for doing the job? A couple of pictures and the type of details you want would help as well. If it is simple then converting a picture into a black and white line drawing and then getting a magnesium plate made may be the way to go but if you need higher detail the casting with a high impact casting epoxy may be required. If tat is the case then it is best if the original carving is done extra deeply to get a better impression when you use the stamp. The bigger the stamp means that you need to be able to have a press that can handle the extra pressure involved.

High impact casting epoxy? That sounds like what I am looking for. I just want to be clear though, is this something you poor over the images you want, remove the images and it’s solidified enough for a good amount of pressure for a plate? Assuming a hand clicker press Would work, if not too big. 

[jrny4wrd]

On 9/21/2020 at 4:33 PM, RockyAussie said:

Chrome tan comes in a very wide range of types but yes you can emboss onto a lot of these types but some of the spongy types can be difficult. Sometimes this type of products can have a packing piece attached to the back to help hold the shape and detail of the design better.

And possible heat too right? I know you’r bot supposed to pyro chrome tanned, but wondering if some of these manufacturers are set up for it. 

[RockyAussie]

7 hours ago, jrny4wrd said:

High impact casting epoxy? That sounds like what I am looking for. I just want to be clear though, is this something you poor over the images you want, remove the images and it’s solidified enough for a good amount of pressure for a plate? Assuming a hand clicker press Would work, if not too big. 

That is correct.

7 hours ago, jrny4wrd said:

And possible heat too right? I know you’r bot supposed to pyro chrome tanned, but wondering if some of these manufacturers are set up for it. 

That is also correct. If you look into many tanneries they will have a large embossing type machine with large alloy plates that can give them a wide range of patterns to put over hides. Also you can warm a piece to be stamped ahead and then emboss down into it. This can after cooled down then be further warmed on the back which will shrink the leather a little whilst making the design pop out a little further.