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picker77

Brand/model/clone cross reference list?

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While doing due diligence as a stitching newbie trying to sort out what machine I need (that I can also afford) it appears many of the most popular machines have been extensively cloned under multiple brand names & models, resulting in what is to me a mind boggling mishmash of confusing information. Many of the experienced forum “old hands” such as Cobra Steve and the Wiz seem to have much of this info available for instant mental recall. It makes sense that a big pdf (or even better an Excel) file must exist as a Sticky somewhere to help guys like me in our search. So I’m trying to find such a beast. If it exists, would someone kindly point me to it? It would be a gigantic help! Thank you.

Edited by picker77
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There is no such list simply because there are tooooo many different machines out there and no one knows them all.  I don´t know how many different model and sub classes of models Singer has made in the last 150 years. Then comes Adler, Pfaff, Durkopp, Durkopp-Adler, Consew, Brother, Seiko, Juki, Nakajima, Mitsubishi, Necchi, Union Special, ........  and since the 1990s (or so) dozens of different manufacturer from China with clones and own design machines...  some brands even have died but their machines are sill in use / on the market.

Just too many makes, models and sub classes to know / list them all....

If I was in central Oklahoma I would look for the closest industrial or leather sewing machine dealer and discuss your needs with them.

Edited by Constabulary

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To give you a visual of the type of list just Singer made machines and all of the variations see

http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/model-list/classes-1-99.html

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Thank you both for taking time to answer. Wow, that list of Singers over the years is impressive. I can see why a complete list would be nearly impossible to generate, and didn't mean to imply I needed to see them all. I was just interested in zeroing in on the most-used versions of maybe half a dozen of the most popular machines, so I could tell if a clone of some brand name might fill the bill. Machines such as the Consew 206RB, the most-commonly-used Juki's, older Seiko's, etc. I'm thinking used versions of those might best fit my hope of finding a reasonably priced "turn-key" used machine from a reputable and reliable source. I'm fairly mechanically inclined, having done quite a bit of manual typewriter repair work, but sewing machines are a whole new ball game, and bringing somebody's vintage "project" back to life would definitely be way beyond my capabilities, thus the interest in the turn-key unit. I just want to make knife sheaths and other small projects using a maximum total of 3/8" of veg tan, and I'm getting too old to want to use a manual stitcher. The new Sailrite Craftool Pro Master Stitcher at around $1300 has sort of caught my eye, being as it's very compact and has a speed reducer built in, but that's the only new machine I've really looked at. I'm sure there are some late model used machines that will do anything I need done and then some. Anyway, thanks for the info, I'll continue looking, learning, and reading a LOT. This is a great forum with very experienced members who seem very willing to help new folks.

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Most popular is one thing - the right machine for the job is another thing.

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I think maybe Constabulary is right. I've been going down the "What do I need to buy to be like the other guys" road instead of the "What really makes sense for what I do" road.

So getting back to reality, I ordered a Cowboy Outlaw today from Mr. Kovar. It should allow me to stitch smaller items like tool covers and axe and knife sheaths, but on rare occasion to comfortably, although slowly, neatly stitch up to 1/2" or more of leather. I found that when shopping for late model powered machines with more than 3/8" capability, the number of candidates left standing plummeted, and their names changed from "Light to Medium duty" to "Medium to Heavy Duty", with prices becoming heavy duty, too. At my leatherworking skill level and especially considering my age (nearing 80), I think a nice safe comfortable working pace using a manual machine makes much more sense for what I do. The field immediately came down to Tippmann Boss or Cowboy Outlaw, and after studying currently available models, the scales were clearly tipped toward the Cowboy Outlaw due to its wider throat, much heavier cast iron frame vs aluminum, heat treated carbon steel internal parts, and a general overall look of solid quality. Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine's reputation for quality and customer support didn't hurt, either. Of course it will be much slower to use than a powered machine, but that kind of suits me, since I'm older and slower these days too. I'm sure it will be much faster and easier on my hands than hand punching and stitching, and there's no doubt the end product will look better. Heck, I might even have a fighting chance to fix the Outlaw if it breaks, or to at least keep it properly adjusted without expert help. If I'm honest, I suppose I am also just a little intimidated by the speed, mechanical complexity, and maintenance requirements of modern industrial sewing machines. Anyway, thanks to all for the helpful advice during the search. Can't wait to get my hands on this thing.

P.S. I also dislike the look of skinny thread on sheaths, and this Outlaw is built to run 277 and up!

Edited by picker77
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My thinking here is to get going with a simple manually operated machine like the Outlaw that I'm absolutely confident can stitch the thickest stock I might encounter, using heavy thread. In the meanwhile, I'll keep an eye out for a good deal on an older light/medium duty machine that can stitch up to 5/16" or so material, and that is already (or can easily be) fitted with a servo and maybe also a speed reducer. Between those two machines I hope to be able to sew a wide range of materials, including some occasional canvas materials and nylon strapping, and still have room to turn around in my workshop.

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