Needles

[Chris623]

Any recommendations for a good brand of Harness needles for hand stitching?  I had an order in with Fine Leatherworking for a package of their size #1/0 needles, but requested a refund when it had been 18 days since ordering and I'd still not received them.

[Tugadude]

John James harness needles.

[Chris623]

John James was the brand I ordered.  I just now found and placed an order for them with Rocky Mountain Leather Supply.  We'll see if it takes THEM 18 days to get them to me!!!!!

[zuludog]

Yes, John James needles

For the most used diameter of thread, which is 0,6mm synthetic, 18/3 linen or 432 linen in the French system choose John James Saddlers Harness needles product code L3912 size 002. Beware; JJ sizing system is a bit confusing. Make sure you get size 002 and not 2/0

Incidentally, what thread do you use?

RMLS sell the Chinese Yue Fung thread, both linen and synthetic under their own 'Twist' name, and it's excellent

[Chris623]

8 hours ago, zuludog said:

For the most used diameter of thread, which is 0,6mm synthetic, 18/3 linen or 432 linen in the French system choose John James Saddlers Harness needles product code L3912 size 002. Beware; JJ sizing system is a bit confusing. Make sure you get size 002 and not 2/0

Incidentally, what thread do you use?

 

I don't use thread............at this point!  Admittedly I've never done any hand stitching, so I have no idea what thread I'll be using 

I'm trying to get set up to make knife sheaths for the custom knives I make.  Of course my attitude may change, but I really have no plans on making anything else in leather.  One of my friends has told me I needed the size #1/0 harness needles.  I don' know anything about needles other than they have a one point on one end and a slot on the other end for the thread.    He said that's what I needed to do my sheath work.  So I'm assuming he based that size needle on the size of thread I'd be using on sheaths.  I've a WHOLE lot to learn about the craft.  Thanks for the RMLS thread tip.  I'll check that out.

[chuck123wapati]

14 minutes ago, Chris623 said:

I don't use thread............at this point!  Admittedly I've never done any hand stitching, so I have no idea what thread I'll be using 

I'm trying to get set up to make knife sheaths for the custom knives I make.  Of course my attitude may change, but I really have no plans on making anything else in leather.  One of my friends has told me I needed the size #1/0 harness needles.  I don' know anything about needles other than they have a one point on one end and a slot on the other end for the thread.    He said that's what I needed to do my sheath work.  So I'm assuming he based that size needle on the size of thread I'd be using on sheaths.  I've a WHOLE lot to learn about the craft.  Thanks for the RMLS thread tip.  I'll check that out.

lol that's how I started and glad i had my mind fixed so i could change it. Matching holsters, matching belts, it doesn't end.

[Chris623]

Please tell me you are kidding!!!!!   Believe me when I say I was dragged kicking and screaming down this leather working rabbit hole because I "have to make sheaths for my knives".

[zuludog]

Who knows how we settle on a hobby? 

I, too, started with knife making and realised I had better learn to make the sheaths; I think several people on this forum got started that way. At first it was just a means to an end to make the sheaths, but I now also make belts and wallets 

If you do start doing leatherwork you will quickly realise that the same construction techniques - sewing, edge finishing, dyeing etc are used in many items  - belts, sheaths, belt pouches, wallets and so on  And one of the first things you will need to learn is the saddle stitch

YouTube is your friend, Search it for techniques and how to make specific items. In your case knife sheaths, including making a sheath for a round knife, are an obvious choice, but consider others, and watch as many as you have the stamina for. You'll soon see the methods and the tools that are used - you have a whole lot of new jargon to learn; welcome to the fun!

I can recommend these channels - Nigel Armitage.....Ian Atkinson.......J H Leather.......Geordie Leather

Don't be afraid of the suppliers! email or phone them, explain that you're a beginner and what you'd like to do. After all, they know their stock, and it is in their interests to help you

But before you buy anything you might think about asking on this Forum for suggestions and opinions on your possible choices

Edited September 19, 2020 by zuludog

[Frodo]

this just my opinion

buy a set of 4mm  stitching chisels

size lg 000 harness needles   [springfield leather sku- 130-119200]

a roll of 1 mm flat waxed bonded thread

 

[Frodo]

 

[Chris623]

Frodo, I have  1, 2, 4 and 9 prong set of Craftool Pro 3mm Chisels from Tandy's, so I'm fixed on that point.  Thanks for the link.  I've watch that and multitudes of other videos.  I've never been accused of just sipping and spitting when it comes to knowledge.  My main problem is I keep sampling too many different flavors!

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Chris623 said:

Please tell me you are kidding!!!!!   Believe me when I say I was dragged kicking and screaming down this leather working rabbit hole because I "have to make sheaths for my knives".

Don't worry friend you will have plenty of help here to make it as painless as possible LOL.

[zuludog]

1 hour ago, Chris623 said:

Please tell me you are kidding!!!!!   Believe me when I say I was dragged kicking and screaming down this leather working rabbit hole because I "have to make sheaths for my knives".

Ah but think of the benefits!

You will have many more toys and tools and knives to play with and spend your money on

[fredk]

3 hours ago, Chris623 said:

I don't use thread............at this point!  Admittedly I've never done any hand stitching, so I have no idea what thread I'll be using 

I'm trying to get set up to make knife sheaths for the custom knives I make.  Of course my attitude may change, but I really have no plans on making anything else in leather.  One of my friends has told me I needed the size #1/0 harness needles.  I don' know anything about needles other than they have a one point on one end and a slot on the other end for the thread.    He said that's what I needed to do my sheath work.  So I'm assuming he based that size needle on the size of thread I'd be using on sheaths.  I've a WHOLE lot to learn about the craft.  Thanks for the RMLS thread tip.  I'll check that out.

You have a steep learning road ahead of you. How steep depends on how much you really want to make those sheaths.

There are a lot of good sheath makers on here. Grab a brew and browse thru the 'Show Off!'

https://leatherworker.net/forum/forum/31-show-off/

and the 'How do I do that?' pages

https://leatherworker.net/forum/forum/36-how-do-i-do-that/

and even the 'Critique my work'

https://leatherworker.net/forum/forum/49-critique-my-work/

[Chris623]

Danged enablers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Every craft forum I get on, no matter the craft, is full of stinkers like you guys!

[fredk]

Is that aimed at me?

Should I be offended? or not?

[Chris623]

It was aimed at all of you danged enablers.  Just remember, "I'm offended that you're offended".  (that's on one of my brother's t-shirts.)  So, no, don't be offended....................at least not for now.  I may take liberty to offend you at some later date.

[fredk]

11 minutes ago, Chris623 said:

. . . . danged enablers.  

I have no idea what that means

12 minutes ago, Chris623 said:

. . .  So, no, don't be offended....................at least not for now.  I may take liberty to offend you at some later date.

It takes a lot to offend me

I don't care what you say to me or what you call me - as long as you don't call me . . . . . . . .

 

 

 

Late for dinner!    

[chuck123wapati]

45 minutes ago, fredk said:

You have a steep learning road ahead of you. How steep depends on how much you really want to make those sheaths.

There are a lot of good sheath makers on here. Grab a brew and browse thru the 'Show Off!'

https://leatherworker.net/forum/forum/31-show-off/

and the 'How do I do that?' pages

https://leatherworker.net/forum/forum/36-how-do-i-do-that/

and even the 'Critique my work'

https://leatherworker.net/forum/forum/49-critique-my-work/

 

37 minutes ago, Chris623 said:

Danged enablers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Every craft forum I get on, no matter the craft, is full of stinkers like you guys!

and the leather tools section,  Plenty of goodies that you can make yourself lol.

[DJole]

Stitching Needles are another rabbit hole to disappear down!
Not all needles are the same -- Harness needles are rounded, less sharp than glovers' needles, for example.  You don't push harness needles through leather to make holes, like a cloth sewing needle, so they don't need to be sharp.
John James needles get consistent recommendations, and I must concur -- they are good quality.
The difficulty is knowing which ones to get-- per their website, they offer the following for Saddlers Harness needles:

25 Saddlers Harness needles in paper envelope. 

Size 1    54mm length x 1.02mm diameter
Size 2    54mm length x 1.02mm diameter
Size 3    54mm length x 1.02mm diameter
Size 4    48mm length x 0.86mm diameter
Size 18   (1/0) 57.5mm length x 1.09mm diameter
Size 17   (2/0) 59.5mm length x 1.42mm diameter
Size 16   (3/0) 61.5mm length x 1.63mm diameter

And now the beginner is hopelessly confused -- why so many? which ones do I need? what thread thickness do I need? flat braided or round twisted? polyester or linen? etc. 
It depends on the project: what weight or thickness of leather, which also dictates thread thickness and stitch spacing. Then you can figure out what needle would work.
People (not me!) who specialize in sheathes and holsters can help you figure out those variables if you ask on the forum. 

[toxo]

18 hours ago, Chris623 said:

Any recommendations for a good brand of Harness needles for hand stitching?  I had an order in with Fine Leatherworking for a package of their size #1/0 needles, but requested a refund when it had been 18 days since ordering and I'd still not received them.

I can't claim to be an expert at saddle stitching. I've always used John James but after watching lots of Tony Sees (DieselpunkRo) videos I noticed he uses a longer than usual needle. He doesn't promote them but he doesn't say why. Long story short I badgered him into getting me some. They arrived yesterday after 11 days from Romania (which was expected). They look ok haven't used em yet but they've got to be easier being longer, we'll see.

[Chris623]

Thanks for all the comments, guys.  Helps a lot.  So many things to consider, so many things to learn.  I feel somewhat on overload because in the last year and a half, I started blacksmithing.............built a forced air ribbon burner propane forge, bought a 100 pound anvil, bought a Lincoln Tombstone welder and am teaching myself to use it, bought a leg-vise and built a stand for it, built a hammer and tong stand with my new welder, started making tongs and hammer heads in preparation for starting bladesmithing.  Have bought a 2x72 belt grinder, built a tilting table for it, run 220V lines all over my shop to supply the new welder and the new grinder, bought buffing motors and all sorts of hand-tools for the process.  Then I was told I have to get into leather working to make sheaths for my knifes...............so now I'm gathering the tools/supplies to do all of that.  And you see, a year and a half ago I knew nothing about any of those subjects.  So I've had to learn new-to-me terms and tools and a whole lot of processes I'd never been involved with in my entire life.  So the "pouring" of information into my feeble old brain has put me near to losing my mind at times.  So all the patience and help you folks have given me has helped greatly.................as has the help from the Bladesmith forums and the Blacksmith forums I've participated in. 

[fredk]

More advice.

Download  some of the FREE instruction packs from the Tandy Library. Such as this one; https://www.leathercraftlibrary.com/product/1930/custom-knife-sheath-instructions

There is a book called 'Hand Sewing Leather' by Al Stohlman but I can't find it in the library now but its available as a ready-printed copy thru Tandy shops: https://tandyleather.world/collections/books-patterns/products/the-art-of-hand-sewing-leather-book. You really can't go far wrong following the instructions in this book.

or this simplified version: https://tandyleather.world/collections/books-patterns/products/lacing-stitching-for-leathercraft-book

Al Stohlman was not only a master leather worker, artist and craftsman but his books are the number 1 go-to for instruction. Its good to have a selection of his books handy in the leather work room.

You stick with us you 'ole Okie*    and we'll see you right

 

* I'm a Bohunk  

 

[Chris623]

Thanks for the links, "Bohunk".   (had to look that one up!) 

When I was last in Tandy's they had a 3-Book series on sheath making.  Written by David Holter.  It was a spiral-bound book that would lay open on a table so you could work as you looked at it.  I thought it a bit pricey at $25 plus tax for each book but ome day I might buy the set.  A quick browse through looked as it it would be pretty nice to have to get started.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Chris623 said:

Thanks for all the comments, guys.  Helps a lot.  So many things to consider, so many things to learn.  I feel somewhat on overload because in the last year and a half, I started blacksmithing.............built a forced air ribbon burner propane forge, bought a 100 pound anvil, bought a Lincoln Tombstone welder and am teaching myself to use it, bought a leg-vise and built a stand for it, built a hammer and tong stand with my new welder, started making tongs and hammer heads in preparation for starting bladesmithing.  Have bought a 2x72 belt grinder, built a tilting table for it, run 220V lines all over my shop to supply the new welder and the new grinder, bought buffing motors and all sorts of hand-tools for the process.  Then I was told I have to get into leather working to make sheaths for my knifes...............so now I'm gathering the tools/supplies to do all of that.  And you see, a year and a half ago I knew nothing about any of those subjects.  So I've had to learn new-to-me terms and tools and a whole lot of processes I'd never been involved with in my entire life.  So the "pouring" of information into my feeble old brain has put me near to losing my mind at times.  So all the patience and help you folks have given me has helped greatly.................as has the help from the Bladesmith forums and the Blacksmith forums I've participated in. 

lol nothin like jumpin in with both feet.