Recommendations?

[chuck123wapati]

12 minutes ago, sonnyboone said:

I do have some knife making tools still but to re-do the heat treat and temper I would still need to know the steel since some are oil hardened, air hardened, brine etc, etc.  I've been playing around a bit making some leather knives and ended up making a edger to test this morning to try to hold me over while I'm trying to decide what to get.  I do notice a big difference in hardness from the O1 that I'm using vs some of my Tandy mystery steel.  Maybe making is the way to go?  I feel like buying the tools is a good way to get a point of reference if I do decide to make more.

I haven't jumped into stamping yet but it's next on the list.  I have a small Sherline mill and am wondering about converting it to cnc to try and cut diy stamps.  Like I need another hobby....  While on that topic, if you have any recommendations on shops that produce stamps I'd love to hear those too. 

I definitely agree, if you want quality you usually have to pay.  If there's no middle of the road leather tool company maybe there's a market opportunity there!

your right about not knowing the steel or tempering techniques for sure but the way i figure it is if the tool is junk it may be worth the try and you may get lucky. My self i make my own cutting tools, awls and even some of the basic stamps, my mill is a set of hand files lol. If you do buy Tandy stamps then try and get older ones as they were much better quality, same with the cutting tools IMO. Once the mass producing world turned to relying  on minimum standards for manufacturing  stuff the quality went way down they simply don't test every tool for temper but rely on the sendit back method. I think there is a niche for leather tools made well with no frills but it may not be big enough to pan out.

[sonnyboone]

3 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

your right about not knowing the steel or tempering techniques for sure but the way i figure it is if the tool is junk it may be worth the try and you may get lucky. My self i make my own cutting tools, awls and even some of the basic stamps, my mill is a set of hand files lol. If you do buy Tandy stamps then try and get older ones as they were much better quality, same with the cutting tools IMO. Once the mass producing world turned to relying  on minimum standards for manufacturing  stuff the quality went way down they simply don't test every tool for temper but rely on the sendit back method. I think there is a niche for leather tools made well with no frills but it may not be big enough to pan out.

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated!

[mike02130]

I see a lot of knives that are D2 steel.  Japanese blacksmith made knives are made with Hitatchi blue or white steel.

[johnv474]

I recommend Kevin Lee tools, kevinleathertools.com  

Most of his cutting tools are made from D2, which is a real workhorse.

Sure, it would be nice to have CPM-S110V or CPM-M4, but even with those, the specific heat treatment makes a big difference.  I own some knives with some nicer metals, but not all of them are necessarily good for an edger.

I would be surprised if many tool makers would give out the details of their process, considering the R&D they put into it and how giving out that information arms their enemies.  It's also expensive information to give out for relatively inexpensive tools.

You might be able to get a category of steel, and the resulting hardness after heat treat, perhaps.

Frankly, any of the edgers on the market can work just fine, and the cheapest and the most expensive can get identically sharp.

[chuck123wapati]

49 minutes ago, johnv474 said:

I recommend Kevin Lee tools, kevinleathertools.com  

Most of his cutting tools are made from D2, which is a real workhorse.

Sure, it would be nice to have CPM-S110V or CPM-M4, but even with those, the specific heat treatment makes a big difference.  I own some knives with some nicer metals, but not all of them are necessarily good for an edger.

I would be surprised if many tool makers would give out the details of their process, considering the R&D they put into it and how giving out that information arms their enemies.  It's also expensive information to give out for relatively inexpensive tools.

You might be able to get a category of steel, and the resulting hardness after heat treat, perhaps.

Frankly, any of the edgers on the market can work just fine, and the cheapest and the most expensive can get identically sharp.

Hardening and tempering details are easy to obtain from the steel manufactures they aren't secret by any means. Its how well  the tool makers can reproduce with certainty the process every time that create better tool makers than others. Type of high carbon steel used is just a part of the equation imo and not as important as in the end its a mater of the finished hardness and temper being correct for the tool and work it will be doing. I agree with you the cheapest and most expensive can be just as sharp. 

[sonnyboone]

3 hours ago, johnv474 said:

I recommend Kevin Lee tools, kevinleathertools.com  

Most of his cutting tools are made from D2, which is a real workhorse.

Sure, it would be nice to have CPM-S110V or CPM-M4, but even with those, the specific heat treatment makes a big difference.  I own some knives with some nicer metals, but not all of them are necessarily good for an edger.

I would be surprised if many tool makers would give out the details of their process, considering the R&D they put into it and how giving out that information arms their enemies.  It's also expensive information to give out for relatively inexpensive tools.

You might be able to get a category of steel, and the resulting hardness after heat treat, perhaps.

Frankly, any of the edgers on the market can work just fine, and the cheapest and the most expensive can get identically sharp.

 

I would agree that you can likely get a comparable edge on most tools, assuming that they have a decent amount of carbon in the alloy.  Edge retention results would vary though.  I've had great experiences with D2 so I'll have to check him out. It's a solid tool steel.... Thanks for the recommend.

 

2 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

Hardening and tempering details are easy to obtain from the steel manufactures they aren't secret by any means. Its how well  the tool makers can reproduce with certainty the process every time that create better tool makers than others. Type of high carbon steel used is just a part of the equation imo and not as important as in the end its a mater of the finished hardness and temper being correct for the tool and work it will be doing. I agree with you the cheapest and most expensive can be just as sharp. 

Agreed.  All the manufacturers have spec sheets for the heat treat.  With a digitally controlled kiln it's fairly easy to get repeatable results.  I was an avid knife collector and have tried most of the steels out.

I'd say there's an cavernous difference between good and bad, but less of a difference and more preference between all the good steels.