Binding with my Adler 69 72E

[toxo]

Don't intend to do masses of it but what do I need guys. I've tried looking but it's confusing. Thanks.

[Uwe]

This topic covers most of it:

Kwok Hing in Hong Kong is one manufacturer who still makes all the parts you need for binding on an Adler 69. You can order directly from them at http://khsew.com  (create an account to see pricing)

College Sewing in the UK may also offer these parts, for easy local ordering. 

Here’s the parts list as of October 2020:

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Uwe

[toxo]

Thanks Uwe. I had seen that thread but me being a cheapskate was thinking you can't need all that surely. It's far too expensive. Especially with most of the 69s having the sideways feed dog anyway.

To be clear, mine is the 69-72E42. Do we know what the difference is between mine and say the 373? I'd love to know.

So this is the standard one yes? And does the actual tape turny thing screw into those holes at the front?

[Uwe]

If you think $111 is far too expensive for that set of parts listed above, then you’re in the wrong hobby or you haven’t been paying attention. There’s a fine line between being frugal and being high maintenance.

You can always experiment and make your own solutions. Just buy a tape folder thingy and install it on your machine, perhaps with a little custom bracket to bring it into the right position. Post a topic here when it works.

Binding is an art and science, frustrating to many who attempt it. Many people experienced with binding will simply say “take my money!” when they’re presented with a solution that actually works. Then they don’t touch the binding setup after it works properly - they simply buy a second machine for whatever else they might want to sew.

The “72” in your model number is the subclass and usually relates to the details of the feed mechanism your machine has. The ‘E42” is likely the gauge set (throat plate, feed dog, feet) that was installed at the factory. There are dozens of gauge set configurations possible, E42 is just one of them. Odds are,  it no longer is the configuration you currently have installed on your machine, so the E42 may be meaningless.

 

[toxo]

5 minutes ago, Uwe said:

If you think $111 is far too expensive for that set of parts listed above, then you’re in the wrong hobby or you haven’t been paying attention. There’s a fine line between being frugal and being high maintenance.

You can always experiment and make your own solutions. Just buy a tape folder thingy and install it on your machine, perhaps with a little custom bracket to bring it into the right position. Post a topic here when it works.

Binding is an art and science, frustrating to many who attempt it. Many people experienced with binding will simply say “take my money!” when they’re presented with a solution that actually works. Then they don’t touch the binding setup after it works properly - they simply buy a second machine for whatever else they might want to sew.

The “72” in your model number is the subclass and usually relates to the details of the feed mechanism your machine has. The ‘E42” is likely the gauge set (throat plate, feed dog, feet) that was installed at the factory. There are dozens of gauge set configurations possible, E42 is just one of them. Odds are,  it no longer is the configuration you currently have installed on your machine, so the E42 may be meaningless.

 

That was after I'd almost pulled the trigger with College at £206. I ordered it last night with Ksew @ £106 delivered. Bear in mind this is a hobby for me albeit hopeful that I might get something back sometime.

Binding is an art and science, frustrating to many who attempt it. Many people experienced with binding will simply say “take my money!” when they’re presented with a solution that actually works. Then they don’t touch the binding setup after it works properly - they simply buy a second machine for whatever else they might want to sew.

Now you've proper frightened me. And I still have to buy the turny tape thing at the end and presumably a different one for each tape width?

[shoepatcher]

That machine does not have 4 motion drop feed  which would be a -372. It has what is called skiff feed- feed dog goes back and forth but does not drop down.  made for binding!!!

glenn

[toxo]

2 minutes ago, shoepatcher said:

That machine does not have 4 motion drop feed  which would be a -372. It has what is called skiff feed- feed dog goes back and forth but does not drop down.  made for binding!!!

glenn

I know Glenn but it doesn't make the bits any cheaper.

[shoepatcher]

My binders are all custom made.  They started at $350.00.  Where I worked before I retired, we set up a symmetric feed binding on a Pfaff 1295 post walking foot machine .  it was made for us by Atlanta Attachment

They make the best binders bar none.  However, you pay for it.  That set ending up costing  $1350.00.   Not cheap.  The throat plate, feed dog, binder holder, all custom made.  And that did not include the 2" clean finish  top and bottom binder with a 3/8" fold over which cost another $400.00!!!   Trust me, $111.00 is cheap!!!  you get what you pay for.

glenn

[toxo]

1 minute ago, shoepatcher said:

My binders are all custom made.  They started at $350.00.  Where I worked before I retired, we set up a symmetric feed binding on a Pfaff 1295 post walking foot machine .  it was made for us by Atlanta Attachment

They make the best binders bar none.  However, you pay for it.  That set ending up costing  $1350.00.   Not cheap.  The throat plate, feed dog, binder holder, all custom made.  And that did not include the 2" clean finish  top and bottom binder with a 3/8" fold over which cost another $400.00!!!   Trust me, $111.00 is cheap!!!  you get what you pay for.

glenn

I agree completely but lets not forget that it's a business expenditure where it will eventually pay for itself over and over.

In my case it'll be an enjoyable experiment to see what I can do with it. I honestly don't have an immediate job for it and don't even know yet what size  tape thingy to buy or single fold or double fold. Don't have a clue but I'll enjoy finding out.

[shoepatcher]

let me know if I can help in the future.

glenn

[toxo]

On 10/17/2020 at 3:33 PM, shoepatcher said:

let me know if I can help in the future.

glenn

Thanks Glenn. Appreciate it.

Everything arrived this morning from KHsew. Took awhile but if it all works as well as the packing I'll be pleased.

Just need the tape turny thing now. Do I have to buy one for a particular tape width or are there ones that will cater for various widths? And does the tape come with a finished edge or a raw edge and does the turny thing cater for that? What should I be looking for?

[toxo]

Anyone?

I've done some looking but there seems to be a lack of info on these tape turny things.For starters I'd like to make some raincoats for my five dogs but  I don't wanna be buying stuff that's gonna sit in a drawer.

[Constabulary]

Edge binders come  in a looooooooooooot of variants, most common are raw edge binders which fold the tape just once in the center. Then you have clean top and clean bottom binders which folds the tape twice (1x center + 1x top or bottom) and you have binders that fold the 1x center + 1x bottom + 1x bottom. So lots of variants. There may be more but thats what is most common.

Edge binders of any type are usually set for using just 1 type of tape. Make sure the binder can handle the thickness of the tape you want to use and have a wide enough "mouth opening" so that is can handle the material thickness you want to bind.

College Sewing has a wide range of binders in different qualities. I usually take the economy binders

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/folders-attachments/economy-golden-eagle-folders/economy-golden-eagle-binders.html

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/folders-attachments/economy-golden-eagle-folders/economy-golden-eagle-binders/economy-shell-binder.html

The numbers on the shell binders like 18 x 6 x 1.5 mean:   18mm tape width x 6mm mouth width x 1.5mm max. tape thickness

You may find them cheaper on Ebay but CS offers a good range of binders and gives you a good overview of whats available and they for sure have a better customer support than Ebay sellers from China

Hope this helps.

 

EDIT:

A tape rack may be useful too but that depends on your workflow and output if you need one or not.

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/accessories/chair-stands-table-tops/tape-racks

I always wanted to test this one but it will not fit your Adler 69 (so rather a note to my self )

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/tr212w-tape-rack-with-tension-bracket.html

Edited November 3, 2020 by Constabulary

[toxo]

Thanks Folker but what I need to know is what type of tape/binder is used for what application? Some raincoats for my dogs using ripstop nylon are gonna need a different setup than binding leather surely? And binding tape with a raw edge (that you cut yourself) would surely need a double fold right?

[Constabulary]

Yes, if you want to cut the tape your self from fabric you need a binder that folds center + top + bottom. Clean finish so to say. But I don´t think there are shell binder for the 69 that fold tape to a clean finish. You may tinker something. I did that with binders for my 108w too. I took a binder for a flat bed machine and modified a bracket so I can use all kind of binders / folders for flat bed machines now.

Or you cut and iron your tape (like bias tape) then you can use plain shell binder too. I have some tape makers / belt loop folder like these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-4-60Pcs-Fabric-Bias-Binding-Tape-Maker-Kit-Binder-Tool-For-Sewing-Quilting/274504755967

[toxo]

On 11/3/2020 at 1:02 PM, Constabulary said:

Yes, if you want to cut the tape your self from fabric you need a binder that folds center + top + bottom. Clean finish so to say. But I don´t think there are shell binder for the 69 that fold tape to a clean finish. You may tinker something. I did that with binders for my 108w too. I took a binder for a flat bed machine and modified a bracket so I can use all kind of binders / folders for flat bed machines now.

Or you cut and iron your tape (like bias tape) then you can use plain shell binder too. I have some tape makers / belt loop folder like these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-4-60Pcs-Fabric-Bias-Binding-Tape-Maker-Kit-Binder-Tool-For-Sewing-Quilting/274504755967

Thanks again Folker. I guess I'll have to try to envisage what I might want to bind in the future and then what size tape and how many folds etc etc .

I'm really surprised that I can't find a comprehensive article/video explaining what does what and why.

[toxo]

Two tape turney things have arrived at last and I'm no closer to doing any binding  or understanding what's not right. Please look at these pics and tell me what bit is at fault. I can't get the business end any closer to the needle and any ttempt to bind something sees the stich line a few mm from where I think it should be. Everything is new and as I say I have two of these and they're both the same so either I'm missing something or something's wrong.

[Uwe]

I suspect that this kind of tape folder isn’t really intended to be used with your synchronized binder plate, so the mounting holes may not be in a suitable position.

You may have to modify the tape folder mounting bracket to increase the adjustment range. Dremel/grind out the mounting holes to make them slots, or something like that.

The key view is the one you don’t show us: the backside of the tape folder to show us what the mounting bracket looks like.

You may have to fabricate your own mounting bracket or extension and glue/screw/solder it to the tape folder.

 

[Constabulary]

the binder attachment in best case has to sit in the angled cutout in the needle plate in front of the presser foot (w/o touching it) so you probably have to grind down the foot a bit. Usually for the 69 so called shell binder are used but you may have differences among them as well so its not safe that they fit 100% into your setup. But I`m using the same binder type as you (different machine). But as Uwe said some it may require some modifications but thats not too unusual. On my bracket the binder is attached with 2 screws and and I can alter the angle.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Constabulary

[toxo]

Thanks guys. I just wanted confirmation before I set about the bloody thing. Obviously I bought it on the understanding that it would fit the 69 and they both have the rectangular box with the long slot that Uwe was looking for. There isn't much room to extend the slot without breaking through the end so I might have to make up something. Thanks again guys. 

Bit by bit I'm learning about this binding lark so as well as getting frustrated, I'm still having fun.

[toxo]

Slot is much too far forward. And this one is a double fold which leaves about a 6/7mm bind on each side. Gonna see if the seller will change em.

[Constabulary]

How much was it? Is it worth sending it back? Maybe asking for a partial refund is the easier way or maybe they even send you another (different) one for free when you send the pictures of the situation.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Constabulary

[toxo]

5 hours ago, Constabulary said:

How much was it? Is it worth sending it back? Maybe asking for a partial refund is the easier way or maybe they even send you another (different) one for free when you send the pictures of the situation.

No I won't send it back but it gets my back up when some companies know something's wrong and make their money from the people who don't bother to return and say nothing.

They've already said there seems to be no problem from the same photos I posted here. Watch this space.

[toxo]

I cut the back out of the 28mm double folder. I also had to cut out the tab that stops the binder from moving forward. Still needs work but hey, I'm binding. The pic shows the 28mm double folder turning over a raw edge tape.

They offered me new ones and wait or half my money back. I told them I would work on them in return for a free repositioned 25mm binder. They haven't replied yet.