Advice on Machine Purchase, $2500 budget range

[Adriayna]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to make a transition from hand stitching to a leather sewing machine.  I've done a lot of research and also read some of the threads here.  I'm primarily making bags (3-4oz veg tan; 4-6oz elk) and sheaths (4-6 oz veg tan).  I'm a hobbyist, so I'm not going to have heavy use of the machine. I'd like something that is easy to maintain, dependable, and versatile.  I'm not very mechanically inclined, so I don't want a machine I have to mess with a lot (although I am happy to do regular maintenance on my machine!)  My budget is no more than $2500 for the machine (less, ideally!).

I called a local industrial sewing store to talk about my needs and the guy was like a used car salesman, trying to convince me that I only could buy a Consew 2050 or Derkop Adler - 205, both of which were almost $4000.   I'm sure those machines are both great, but it seems that people are using a lot more than just these two and those are out of my budget.  He told me that no other machines would work for me.

The local Tandy store suggested I consider a TandyPro Cobra Class 20.  I was also looking at the Consew 206RB-5.   I just don't know enough to make a good and informed purchase.

Can you share your suggestions with me?

[toxo]

17 minutes ago, Adriayna said:

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to make a transition from hand stitching to a leather sewing machine.  I've done a lot of research and also read some of the threads here.  I'm primarily making bags (3-4oz veg tan; 4-6oz elk) and sheaths (4-6 oz veg tan).  I'm a hobbyist, so I'm not going to have heavy use of the machine. I'd like something that is easy to maintain, dependable, and versatile.  I'm not very mechanically inclined, so I don't want a machine I have to mess with a lot (although I am happy to do regular maintenance on my machine!)  My budget is no more than $2500 for the machine (less, ideally!).

I called a local industrial sewing store to talk about my needs and the guy was like a used car salesman, trying to convince me that I only could buy a Consew 2050 or Derkop Adler - 205, both of which were almost $4000.   I'm sure those machines are both great, but it seems that people are using a lot more than just these two and those are out of my budget.  He told me that no other machines would work for me.

The local Tandy store suggested I consider a TandyPro Cobra Class 20.  I was also looking at the Consew 206RB-5.   I just don't know enough to make a good and informed purchase.

Can you share your suggestions with me?

You are where I was not so long ago. After struggling with my Durkopp 239 flatbed (my fault, not the machines) and it's fine now I bought an Adler69  and I would suggest you look at cylinder arm machines for more versatility. Ilike my 69 but with you being in the US I only mention it as a range to look at. Be aware that some c/arms have sideways feed dogs and some go up and down as well which go over bumps better. The only thing I missed while learning is a reverse lever that locked because to begin with it seems like you need three hands. Someone will be along to talk about actual machines but meantime have a sqizz at Wizz's post which is the one above yours in "Leather Sewing Machines"

Good luck.

[Wizcrafts]

Bags like to be sewn on cylinder arm sewing machines. Ask them!

The next question is: which is the best cylinder arm machine fits my $2500 budget?

If you are buying used, anything you can afford and don't mind dinking with when things go out of wack. But, if you buy new and the dealer offers (and provides) free support, you will easily spend $2500 (shipped). This could buy you a Cowboy CB341 or Cobra Model 26, which are clones of the Juki LS-341 (now superseded by the improved LS-1341).

Here is a video of a Cowboy CB341 being demo'd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVJ9_3AbmO4

There are other brands available used that cost twice as much new as the above mentioned clone machines. Adler and Pfaff come to mind, as well as an actual Juki LS-341, or the current LS-1341.

 

 

[Adriayna]

Thank you for the info.  The Cobra Class 26 looks like a good option for me.  One question: I've read in a few places that people have problems using the thinner leather weights with the 26.  Is that a problem anyone else has faced?

I'm looking at the used market around here but I'm not seeing much, so I may have to go with a new machine.

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, Adriayna said:

One question: I've read in a few places that people have problems using the thinner leather weights with the 26.  Is that a problem anyone else has faced?

The Class 26, et al, is a compound feed walking foot machine. All of these machines are designed to sew medium density materials, like vinyl, chrome-tan and thin veg-tan leather, draperies and denim. Light cloth tends to get pushed into the hole/slot in the feed dog. It also lifts with the inside foot on the upstroke which caused puckering and skipped stitches. You probably will need a flat bed straight stitch machine to sew thin linings.

[PaulRS]

6 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The Class 26, et al, is a compound feed walking foot machine. All of these machines are designed to sew medium density materials, like vinyl, chrome-tan and thin veg-tan leather, draperies and denim. Light cloth tends to get pushed into the hole/slot in the feed dog. It also lifts with the inside foot on the upstroke which caused puckering and skipped stitches. You probably will need a flat bed straight stitch machine to sew thin linings.

I have just bought a used Consew 327 R with twin needle, or single, feed (compound?) (There is a 327 R for sale on eBay.) I was hoping this would be good for sewing leather and lighter linings.The holes in the plate/feed dogs are quite small. I am still waiting for needles for the lighter materials but it sews the leather well. What are your thoughts or even better your experience of this type of machine?

Edited October 15, 2020 by PaulRS

[Kcstott]

11 hours ago, Adriayna said:

Thank you for the info.  The Cobra Class 26 looks like a good option for me.  One question: I've read in a few places that people have problems using the thinner leather weights with the 26.  Is that a problem anyone else has faced?

I'm looking at the used market around here but I'm not seeing much, so I may have to go with a new machine.

there's one here in California for sale. I'm chomping at the bit to see if I can juggle some money around to get. it's going dirt cheep too. 

[Uwe]

Many folks have unrealistic expectations when they transition from hand stitching to a sewing machine. Craftspeople often use rather thick thread when hand stitching sheaths and similar projects because it looks really nice. 

If you told the sales guy that you want to use thread larger than size 138, then he was correct in guiding you to a heavy duty cylinder arm stitcher.

The Durkopp Adler 205-370 is a very good design, but it’s complex and expensive to build. The simplified design of the Juki TSC-441 is popular and available in various cheaper clone incarnations (Cowboy 4500 or 3200, Cobra Class 4, etc.)

The Durkopp Adler 205-370 cost around $5,000 in the early 90’s and they sold a LOT of them. That’s about $10,000 in today’s money, adjusted for inflation. Yet somehow people today think that it is absolute insanity that a high quality heavy duty sewing machine should cost anywhere near that much. 

The Juki LS-341 class machines (Cobra class 26, anything with “341” in the name, etc.) are very nice LIGHT/MEDIUM duty machines. They will not sew thread beyond size 207 reliably, if at all. Size 138 thread is really the max most of the medium duty machines are designed for. 

Material hardness and thickness is another factor. A few layers of hard veg tan leather for a sheath may well overwhelm most medium duty sewing machines. 

There’s a general tendency among beginners towards wanting to use a machine for something that is far beyond what it was designed for, instead of using a machine that is comfortable with the sewing projects. Cost is obviously a factor.

There are options available under $2500 that will stitch hard leather with thick thread, just not from that dealer you spoke to.

The Cowboy CB-3200 and other short-arm 441 class clones should come in around $2,500. The 25% punitive US import duty increased the price of many made-in-China machines in recent years. What used to cost $2,000 now costs $2,500 - be sure to thank your senator for that. Occasionally, clones of the Adler 205-370 design sell for $2,500 (i.e., I have one of those for sale)

In any case, you’ll need to get comfortable with machine maintenance. This may be challenging if you’re not mechanically inclined. Dragging these monsters to a repair facility every time something goes out of alignment is not really a good option. Using a machine beyond what it was designed for all but guarantees that it will have frequent adjustment issues.

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Uwe

[Adriayna]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions, wisdom and advice.  I'm going to go with the Cobra Class 26, which seems like it is within my budget.  My local Tandy said they can ship it to the store and show me how to use it, perform maintenance, etc, which sounds like a good idea to me :).