Retention Screws

[MarlinDave]

Wondering where to order holster retention screws. Also, how do they work? A little spring involved? 

[Dwight]

Just a note . . . suggestion . . . 

Mold your holsters tight enough that they do not need the retention screw . . . if you do a good job . . . it'll be a long time before it is needed . . . and they can be added afterwards.

I don't use em because I know people . . . and some would tighten it down the first time they put a gun in the holster . . . and it would not be long until you would have to put a lariat on the gun to keep it in the holster as they ruined the molding.

At least that is my way of doing things . . . YMMV.

May God bless,

Dwight

[MarlinDave]

Thanks. So far I am only making holsters for myself. And I rarely run or tumble any more when packing. 

[Lobo]

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

Just a note . . . suggestion . . . 

Mold your holsters tight enough that they do not need the retention screw . . . if you do a good job . . . it'll be a long time before it is needed . . . and they can be added afterwards.

I don't use em because I know people . . . and some would tighten it down the first time they put a gun in the holster . . . and it would not be long until you would have to put a lariat on the gun to keep it in the holster as they ruined the molding.

At least that is my way of doing things . . . YMMV.

May God bless,

Dwight

I agree. Retention screws really sound like a great idea, but in practice what invariably happens is that the retention screw is always being cranked tighter and tighter in an attempt to make it work as some think it should. The natural result is that the leather around the retention screw (and adjacent parts of the handgun, typically trigger guard area) will stretch with each application of pressure, then stretch more with the next application of pressure, until all possible adjustment is gone and all that is left are leather fibers stretched beyond any hope of providing retention.

With some customers the end result may take several months, but with others only a matter of weeks will go by before they are ripping your rear end for making a "retention holster" that has no retention.

As with many things in life and business, it is always best to be very careful what you promise to people. What you say, even the specific words that you use, mean far less than what the customer's perceptions might be. "But you said.................", "you advertised"..............., "I thought you meant............", and THE BIG ONE "Either you give me my money back or I'll tell everyone on the internet that you're a lying crook" (If you haven't heard that one yet, you probably will).

Many people have an idea in their heads of what the "perfect holster" should be (usually after reading a couple of internet blogs and watching a You-Tube or two), and when their new holster doesn't match up with their mental image they immediately jump to the conclusion that the holster maker screwed up. By that point in the game there is not enough knowledge, wisdom, or common sense in the world to convince them otherwise.

Another class graduates from "Holster Genius School" every week, every one of them filled with ideas and looking for someone to turn their little ideas into functional reality. Again, be very careful what you offer and how you describe it.

[MarlinDave]

So is it just a screw? No spring, just washers?  I am my only customer. 

[Lobo]

9 minutes ago, 327fed said:

So is it just a screw? No spring, just washers?  I am my only customer. 

Typically there will be a washer of some type (rubber, leather, plastic) on the interior of the holster with a screw passing through to a fixed nut, from the front exterior to the rear exterior. Tightening the screw into the fixed nut compresses the washer and draws the leather more snugly together in the area of the installation.

A machine screw and T-nut can be used, or a Chicago screw. Depending on the size of the screw-heads and nuts used a larger washer may be useful on both sides to avoid pulling through the holes in the front and rear holster panels.

[MarlinDave]

Thank you. 

[K5HEP]

A true retention screw will have a rubber washer in the middle - it is not just pinching the two pieces of leather together. They can work well if used correctly - they are not used to just retain the pistol in a holster, but are used adjust the degree that it is held.. For the average leather holster, they are not necessary, but can be useful in rare circumstances.

Edited December 2, 2020 by K5HEP

[Josh Ashman]

As for a specific answer to your question, #8 machine screw, #8 T nut, a finish washer and a piece of fuel line just big enough for the screw to pass through and cut to the appropriate length for the "rubber washer". I get stainless or black oxide screws, T nuts (always stainless as they don't have black oxide ones) and finishing washers from McMaster-Carr by ordering online. They are fairly pricey but they deliver quick and have everything you need when it comes to fasteners. A decently stocked hardware store shoudl also have everything needed but you might have to settle for zinc plated in lieu of stainless. 

I generally agree with Dwight and Lobo as to whether retention screws are needed. At the same time there are cases where they are nice and I do put them in some holster types. I generally put mine in down at the end of the barrel for whatever that's worth. The pic below shows a screw at the bottom of the holster and 2 used to separate the mags in a double pouch.

And as you have noted a number of times, it's for a personal holster so you can learn what you like and what works for you by experimenting. 

All the best, Josh

[MarlinDave]

Thank you. 

[wayner]

Www.knifekits.com also sells everything you will need . It's primary for Kydex but Hardware is Hardware .

[chiefjason]

I have only done a couple, and find them about a useless as thumb breaks.  But T nut, screw, and fuel line cut to length will do it.  Placing them in the holster and lining everything up the first time will be enough to break you of wanting to do it again.  

[MarlinDave]

I really just wondered how they went together. Looking at them from the outside I could not see how it could work or help much. Apparently they don’t. I’ll put extra effort into my wet forming. 

[Josh Ashman]

Like everything, different people have different opinions based on their own experiences. I don't use them a lot, but I do use them from time to time and can say with certainty they they work just fine for what I use them for. I've gone so far as to use 2 screws to replace the "mainseam" in small revolver holsters. I also made a similar type holster for myself for a full size steel frame 1911. I don't often wear it, but it does work just fine. 

By all means, give them a try if you like, or don't if you'd rather not. I'm just advocating for giving them a try before you decide they don't work because someone else on the internet says they don't.  

Pictures aren't proof but I can assure I've built enough of these and the guys that have them have used them enough that I can say with confidence they work just fine. The T nuts are buried under the belt slot overlay. You can see how the rest are assembled. 

All the best, Josh

[Lobo]

Nice piece of workmanship there, Josh. Also a very good example of the usefulness of this method.

[MarlinDave]

Very nice. Thanks. 

[AzShooter]

Knifekits.com has everything you need for tension screws.  I buy in quantity and always get fast reliable service.  Even a good molded holster can take advantage of the screw and rubber washers.  I make holsters for competition shooters where a dropped gun is a definite No-No.

 

[MarlinDave]

Josh, I looked at some of your holsters on  the single action forum. The birder stamps make me wish I could master serpentine. My gosh. 

[Josh Ashman]

On 12/4/2020 at 3:36 PM, Lobo said:

Nice piece of workmanship there, Josh. Also a very good example of the usefulness of this method.

Thanks Ray! Hope retirement is treating you well sir!

On 12/4/2020 at 6:36 PM, 327fed said:

Josh, I looked at some of your holsters on  the single action forum. The birder stamps make me wish I could master serpentine. My gosh. 

Thanks! Nice of you to say  I will note that my first tries were not great, at all!. I'll also note that when doing any tooling I only see my mistakes. I think we're all more critical of ourselves than we are of anyone else.

Have a great day everybody! 

[MarlinDave]

I guess you can have too much retention. Just made a Rhodesian style holster for 1911. Wet molded it and boned it all I could and set it in front of heater vent last night. This morning gun would not come out of holster. Ripped a couple of stitches and got it out. Added a rivet at top to patch my stitches. Good thing I don’t make  my living with leather. 

[JLSleather]

1 hour ago, 327fed said:

I guess you can have too much retention.

A ...n... d... there's another reason for tension screws.  What is fine for you may not be for somebody else.  I've had people pick up holsters at a show, try the fit.  One person complains that's far too tight - the next person loves the fit.  You get a call, somebody says they want a holster, "not as tight as some I've seen".  I have no idea what that actually means unless I've seen the ones you didn't like.

Not to long ago, we made holsters for Sig 238's, fella and his wife (not a matched set, but same layout).  He likes to PULL a gun, she likes it to slide out in her hand.  Gun that small, just one screw lets them both set it the way they like it.  

A rubber washer acts a bit like a lock washer - a little starter tension on it keeps the screw from backing itself out.  With a little thought, it can be placed where it would be difficult to "over crank" it.

Josh, that's nice lookin' stuff ya got there -- simple and clean, but still solid and functional 

Edited December 25, 2020 by JLSleather

[Mocivnik]

On 12/2/2020 at 5:38 PM, Josh Ashman said:

As for a specific answer to your question, #8 machine screw, #8 T nut, a finish washer and a piece of fuel line just big enough for the screw to pass through and cut to the appropriate length for the "rubber washer". I get stainless or black oxide screws, T nuts (always stainless as they don't have black oxide ones) and finishing washers from McMaster-Carr by ordering online. They are fairly pricey but they deliver quick and have everything you need when it comes to fasteners. A decently stocked hardware store shoudl also have everything needed but you might have to settle for zinc plated in lieu of stainless. 

I generally agree with Dwight and Lobo as to whether retention screws are needed. At the same time there are cases where they are nice and I do put them in some holster types. I generally put mine in down at the end of the barrel for whatever that's worth. The pic below shows a screw at the bottom of the holster and 2 used to separate the mags in a double pouch.

And as you have noted a number of times, it's for a personal holster so you can learn what you like and what works for you by experimenting. 

All the best, Josh

You can't imagine how I admire this work and therefore I cannot really just pass it without asking many many questions. But decided to ask only what's neccesery.Đ
 

1. What's this GEORGEOUS dye? I'd say it's dipped into neatsfoot, but I was never able to get this dye, so please share this info :D

2. What's holding those belt loops together, rivet or stitched together? Is is possible to get any additional pictures?

[Josh Ashman]

On 12/26/2020 at 10:55 AM, Mocivnik said:

You can't imagine how I admire this work and therefore I cannot really just pass it without asking many many questions. But decided to ask only what's neccesery.Đ
 

1. What's this GEORGEOUS dye? I'd say it's dipped into neatsfoot, but I was never able to get this dye, so please share this info :D

2. What's holding those belt loops together, rivet or stitched together? Is is possible to get any additional pictures?

Hello Mocivnik! I made a post on this rig when I built it which you can find in the link below. sorry I don't have a more scientific description of the dye.  As for the 2nd question, the belt loop straps are connected over the D's in the holster and mag pouch with Chicago screws and they have line 24 snaps to attach them around the belt. 

Sorry for hijacking this thread! 

Have a great day and Happy New Year everybody!