Verdigris

[JamesRiley]

Thinking out loud, fishing for insight:

I searched the term "verdigris" on this web site and came up with an overwhelming number of hits.  A serious researcher would read all of it.  And maybe I should, and maybe I will.  A "last word" stickie from an expert would be great, but I didn't see one.  Regardless, that won't stop me from running my key board before I start reading.  Sorry.

I hate verdigris.  But I love brass, especially tarnished brass.  I think it looks better on saddles, tack, gun cartridges' and everything else.  I like brass like I like dark brown leather.  I don't seem to have a problem with it on horse tack, but I do with cartridge belts.  I don't know why there's a difference.  I've taken to using nickel plated shell cases but I don't like the look.  It looks too B Western Hollywood to me.  While some folks just keep their loops empty until they go out, I like to keep all my loops full, if only for wall-hangers.

I thought I once read that vegetable tanned leather won't develop verdigris, but I don't know if that is true.  Regardless, even if so, I usually dye my leather, neatsfoot oil, etc. and wonder if some additions won't create a problem while others do.  I've heard some suggestions on gun sites for coating the cartridges with this or that.  No thanks.  I like the brass to patina.

In the end, I'd like a type of leather tanning, and a type of coloration or antiquing and preservation that will not develop verdigris when my brass cartridges are left in the loops for years.

In re-reading what I wrote, I probably should add that I really don't hate verdigris for what it looks like.  I hate it because sticking gummed up rounds in your weapon is not a good thing for a number of reasons.

Thanks for reading.  

Edited March 27, 2021 by JamesRiley

[Northmount]

To stop verdigris you have to keep it dry.  If you look up the chemistry, you'll find it contains H2O.

So how do you keep a belt or other items worn on the body and especially sweaty, hot, humid conditions?  That's really the problem you have to sort out.

 

[chuck123wapati]

3 hours ago, JamesRiley said:

Thinking out loud, fishing for insight:

I searched the term "verdigris" on this web site and came up with an overwhelming number of hits.  A serious researcher would read all of it.  And maybe I should, and maybe I will.  A "last word" stickie from an expert would be great, but I didn't see one.  Regardless, that won't stop me from running my key board before I start reading.  Sorry.

I hate verdigris.  But I love brass, especially tarnished brass.  I think it looks better on saddles, tack, gun cartridges' and everything else.  I like brass like I like dark brown leather.  I don't seem to have a problem with it on horse tack, but I do with cartridge belts.  I don't know why there's a difference.  I've taken to using nickel plated shell cases but I don't like the look.  It looks too B Western Hollywood to me.  While some folks just keep their loops empty until they go out, I like to keep all my loops full, if only for wall-hangers.

I thought I once read that vegetable tanned leather won't develop verdigris, but I don't know if that is true.  Regardless, even if so, I usually dye my leather, neatsfoot oil, etc. and wonder if some additions won't create a problem while others do.  I've heard some suggestions on gun sites for coating the cartridges with this or that.  No thanks.  I like the brass to patina.

In the end, I'd like a type of leather tanning, and a type of coloration or antiquing and preservation that will not develop verdigris when my brass cartridges are left in the loops for years.

In re-reading what I wrote, I probably should add that I really don't hate verdigris for what it looks like.  I hate it because sticking gummed up rounds in your weapon is not a good thing for a number of reasons.

Thanks for reading.  

Your lucky Wyoming is pretty dry so its not as much of a problem as more humid parts of the world. The acids in the leather reacts to humidity and you cant do much to stop it veg tan has tannic acid in it. I don't store firearms or ammo like that anymore but you sure can if you want. You will have to check it once in awhile and replace or clean the rounds, really the only way to prevent the stuff is good periodic maintenance and that is a necessity with the firearm as well. Moths and other bugs are notorious for getting inside a gun barrel and dyeing, when they do they can ruin the rifling, throat or cylinder for that matter in short order. so if your holster is open toe  its something to think about also.  I don't polish my brass before reloading so it always has a patina lol. Good luck friend. 

[JamesRiley]

I read everything on the board that came up with the word "verdigris."  Had I not been so lazy, I would have created a "white paper", synthesizing it all for a single spot.  But alas, I'm lazy.  Suffice it to say, Northmount and chuck123wapati are correct.  There are several different things you can try, different coatings, different leathers and whatnot, but in the end, it's not worth my fight to try/do it all.  I'm lucky to live in a high, dry environment and things aren't all that bad.  I'll either keep nickel in the stuff I display, or I'll "tend to and clean up" the rest on a periodic basis.  I'm really just trying to keep gunk out of my guns and make sure the shell casings don't degrade beyond safe shooting/reloading.  The real answer?  Shoot all your ammo and keep buying more.  Tip o the hat to Bill Gates and thems what can afford it.  LOL! 

[RemingtonSteel]

So just to be clear, your saying you don't like my pretty verdigris cartridges. I'll have you know that it took me well over a year of sitting on my butt waiting for it develop just to get it to this stage. Geez, either there is just no accounting for art appreciation, or turquois is not your most favorite color. 

[JamesRiley]

Yeah,. . .  no.  LOL!  Eye, beholder, etc.  I could actually live with it, cept'n the lock up in my 45-70.  It was in two 100 round bandoliers for over 20 years.  I managed to clean it all off but it wasn't fun.  I just started reloading about a year ago and discovered that any thing more than brass in a die can dent your brass, too.  I didn't know tolerances and such were so picky.  I'm a larnin.

[RemingtonSteel]

Yeah, due to the virus, I haven't shot for just about a year now.  It is interesting, that the six .38 cartridges that sit in my shotgun belt and are used for on the clock reloads all pretty much look like this.  The ones that are in my gun belt look pretty much like they did the day I reloaded them.  Both my shell and gun belts were made from the same side of leather, as well as being stained and finished they same way.  Not sure why those six from the shell belt have developed verdigris while the ones in my gun belt did not, as they were hanging right next to each other. From now on though, if I have to take any time off between matches, I am going to take the cartridges out before I put the belt in storage.

Now that the restrictions have lightened up and we can get back to shooting, I am not sure if I will yet. I have been trying to find small pistol primers, and there are none to be had in the stores or online, not to mention the inflated price even if I could find some.

Edited March 30, 2021 by RemingtonSteel

[JamesRiley]

When I saw .22 going for 20 cents a pop I like to throw up in my mouth.  I didn't want to see what had happened to .45 Colt, ACP and 45-70.  But I looked and I did throw up.  I do have a stick bow with some arrows, so . . . maybe it's time to revisit archery.  And you know, I've got a little money, but it's the principle of the damn thing.  Oh well, I guess it's the market.

[RemingtonSteel]

18 hours ago, JamesRiley said:

.22 going for 20 cents a pop

Peanuts... how about this: .38 cowboy loads 500 for $1,500... that $3 a pop.  Had to include a picture cause I didn't want you to think I was pulling your leg.

Sorry to the rest of you all leather workers for getting a little off topic, but many of us here are into Cowboy Action Shooting, and yes guns in general.

Edited March 30, 2021 by RemingtonSteel

[JamesRiley]

15 minutes ago, RemingtonSteel said:

Peanuts... how about this: .38 cowboy loads 500 for $1,500... that $3 a pop.  Had to include a picture cause I didn't want you to think I was pulling your leg.

Insane!