Landis 1 test

[jacob1965]

Pick up a Landis 1 (Lock Stitch Wax Thread Machine) this weekend at a good price.  Came with stand and accessories. But no foot peddles or links for foot peddles.  

Here is a test I did with a piece of 8-9 oz leather using 277 nylon bound thread and a new #200 Schmetz needle. The front looks good to me but the back I'm not sure about is the Landis a saddle stitch style machine?  Or do I need to adjust something? Have a manual but don't have any examples of stitching. 

FYI I know nothing about leather working. Hope to use the Landis to make knife and ax sheaths.

[CowboyBob]

It looks pretty good but I would tighten the top tension just alittle.And be sure to holdon the needle thread when you start sewing.

[jacob1965]

Bob, Thank you, will try your suggestions. 

[RemingtonSteel]

13 hours ago, jacob1965 said:

 is the Landis a saddle stitch style machine?

Jacob, I think you may have answered your own question within your question.

13 hours ago, jacob1965 said:

Pick up a Landis 1 (Lock Stitch Wax Thread Machine)

I am certainly no expert, but let me try to add a little more clarification. 

In Saddle Stitching the top and bottom threads alternate with every stitch hole and Saddle Stitching is done by hand. On hole one you start with two equal lengths of thread with one end coming out the top and the other coming out the bottom. On the first actual stitch, both the top and bottom needles pass through hole two and the threads are cinched tight, with the top thread becoming the bottom thread and the bottom thread becoming the top thread... rinse and repeat through the whole stitching process. If you were to use two different color threads, say red and blue tied together, and you started with the knot in hole one, if you looked form the top you would see a red stitch followed by a blue, followed by a red, followed by a blue, etc. looking at the bottom of the leather you would see just the opposite, blue followed by red, followed by blue, followed by a red... you get the idea.

With lock stitching the top thread always remains the top thread, and the bottom thread always remains the bottom thread, and is almost always done on a machine. The machine passes the needle through the leather carrying the top thread, and on the upstroke of the needle a loop in the top thread is formed. The shuttle which holds the bobbin, essentially pass the lower thread through the loop made by the top thread. The two threads (top and bottom) are now looped around each other forming the stitch. As the needle continues to rise, if the tension on both the top and bottom threads is set correctly, the stitch is pulled up into the center of the leather essentially locking the stitch in place, hence Lock Stitch. This is why Bob suggested tightening up the tension on your machine.  If you have a red thread as the top thread of your lock stitch machine, and a blue thread in the bobbin as your lower thread, all of your top stitching will be red and all of your bottom stitching will be blue.

If I may make an additional suggestion to follow up Bob's, adjust you machines tension when sewing two pieces of 7-9 oz. leather.  Most of your sheaths will have a minimum of two layers (top and bottom pieces), and if you put in a welt, which is highly recommended, that is three to four layers. Ideally you want your stitch pulled halfway up into the project. But because many do not like to keep readjusting the tension every time they change the number of layers of a project, if you are pulling into the center of two layers, that tension should work for a project with three to four layers as well. The stitch will not be in the center, but it will be far enough in to lock the stitch and keep it hidden.

That is a great find you made.  Nothing like working on a craft as a hobby with a piece of that crafts history. Be patient, and you will get it dialed in.. Enjoy.  

Edited March 31, 2021 by RemingtonSteel

[jacob1965]

RemingtonSteel Thank you for the explanation of the two different stitches. I will have to get two different color threads just to see how they are coming together. 

Thanks, Jacob 

[RemingtonSteel]

On 3/30/2021 at 6:56 AM, jacob1965 said:

The front looks good to me but the back I'm not sure about is the Landis a saddle stitch style machine?

Jacob, first you are welcome for the explanation of the two stitch types. However, after rereading your original post, I think I understand your question better, so correct me if I am wrong.  On the top, the stitches are straight and inline with each other (what you expected to see.)  On the back the stitches are angled and look exactly like English style saddle stitching (not what you expected to see... expecting to see straight stitching like on top), which gives you the impression that the Landis is a saddle stitch machine even though you purchased what you thought was a lock stitch machine. If that is what you are thinking, you are correct, it does look like saddle stitching, even though it is not.  This has more to do with the point style of the needle, than the machine being used. You mentioned that the needle is a #200 Schmetz, but you don't tell us what point type it is. My guess from looking at the picture of the back side stitching is that you are using a LL point needle.  Different needle point types can create different looking stitches on the front and/or back of the project, as seen in the two samples below.  Shown is the back side of both samples where the top sample uses a LR point needle, and the bottom uses a LL point needle.

If you are looking to have straight stitches on both the front and the back of the project, you would want one of the following leather point style needles: S (Spear), Di (Diamond), D (Triangular), or R (Round). The point style you choose has as much to do with appearance as it does the strength of the stitch. As an example A spear point needle, if used on short stitch lengths, although creating straight stitches on front and back, can create a weak seam as there will be very little leather if any between stitch holes. Because the point of the LL needle is angled, you can sew these short stitch length and your project will be stronger as the holes will not connect with each other.

Here is Schmetz's page on leather needle points.

I hope this helps a little more with understanding the nuances of machine sewing.

Edited April 2, 2021 by RemingtonSteel

[RemingtonSteel]

Oh, and here is a handy Schmetz guide to Cutting points/Needles for stitching leather that can be downloaded if the above link ever dies:  leather-needles.pdf

@BigSiouxSaddlery below sounds like she has a tremendous amount of experience with the Landis, and would know more about your machine than I ever would. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by RemingtonSteel

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

LR needles are the only kind currently available in the 331 needle that the #1 takes. In fact, I have never seen an LL configuration for these needles, and I have a pretty extensive inventory of original, old stock needles.  I do believe there were some round point needles available at one time, but I've never run across any. I have owned and run Landis #1 machines for 30 years, and while I have many other models now, I still have a great fondness for these ancient beasts.  They are a very simple machine, and if they are not worn out, are able to do decent work with a few minor adjustments.

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

Jacob, what is the serial number on your machine?  You can find it stamped into the head to the right of the presser foot bar, on top of the machine.  Interesting that you have a wax/lube pot on top, I haven't seen many of those.  Can you tell if it looks like it was an aftermarket pot made for the #1, or something that was just made to work?  I have a couple top pots, but they are not identical to yours. When motorized power became available, many of the original treadle pedals were removed and discarded.  What's curious is that the big flywheel is still there.  Most of those were removed also, along with the whole boiler and waxing apparatus, to reduce weight when transporting. 

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

17 minutes ago, RemingtonSteel said:

Oh, and here is a handy Schmetz guide to Cutting points/Needles for stitching leather that can be downloaded if the above link ever dies:  leather-needles.pdf

@BigSiouxSaddlery below sounds like he has a tremendous amount of experience with the Landis, and would know more about your machine that I ever would.  I can only address 441 clones and general sewing questions.

I'm a "she" (born that way, and still am) but I won't hold it against you since I don't list my gender in my profile.  Vintage machinery rescue and rehabilitation is probably a very strange obsession for a female, but it's a lot more satisfying than shopping for things that would go on next year's garage sale!