hand tools leather2

[Klara]

Just checked: Rocky Mountain Leather Supply do indicate which thread to use with which needle size. 

But I take back the bit about needles being cheap - that was based on what I pay in France. For once we have it better

Edited May 28, 2021 by Klara
added info

[Leather2]

8 hours ago, Klara said:

Another vote for the stitching clamp/saddlers clam/stitching pony. There's videos on YouTube on how to make one (if you have (access to) a reasonably equipped wood workshop, making a stitching pony is a lot faster than waiting for delivery. And cheaper.)

In a pinch a vise on your work table might do. But you need a way to hold the leather in position while you use both hands for stitching. Once you have that, working with a stitching wheel and awl just needs practice. For your very first pieces, you dont even need the wheel  - you could mark the holes for the stitches with your scratch awl (or any other pointy object) and a ruler.

Regarding needles and thread size: John James 002 isn't big. JJ 2/0 is big... My local shop has tables on its site for optimum needle/thread combinations https://www.decocuir.com/couture-cuir-fil-aiguille-choisir-guide-c1200x67488 It's in French, but have a look around the web sites of your suppliers, they might have the info on there.

Needles are cheap, you can buy several sizes (is there any retailer who makes packages of 5 needles in each of the 5 sizes?) Thread is more expensive, but good thread is worth every cent!

Do you have Al Stohlman's book on Handsewing Leather? It's brilliant! 

My take on tool quality: If I have experience with a tool and know for sure I will use it often, I buy good or even top quality (cordless drills come to mind - the third one was finally a Makita). For starting out, not. Yes, you can easily sell top quality, but I hate selling... 

Anything that has a cutting edge (knives, but also diamond awls, edgers, groovers) needs to be maintained. You'll want to buy some polishing/honing paste/jewellers rouge and make a strop for your first project (even xacto blades are improved by stropping, though I still hate them for most purposes). If you can sharpen tools, you can greatly improve cheaply bought ones, if you can't, even the most expensive tool will use its edge. 

Incidentally, I believe that Osborne awls are just as good as Vergez Blanchard, if not better (or at least harder). The VB blade is the one that got a bent tip without dropping on the ground, the Osborne was relatively fine even after falls (then I learned from an old post here about a safety line for the awl: Drill a hole through the handle, attach a loop which you put your hand through. Saves on sharpening as you'll no longer drop the awl.)

 

 

So what size needle and thread would you recommend for making a knife sheath out of 8 oz leather?

[Klara]

No idea. I just made a dog collar with a needle size 002 and a linen thread 18/3, diameter 0.6 mm. Worked very well, but the leather is much thinner than you are planning to use (it's a show collar). You could choose thicker thread, with a bigger needle. It's a question of personal taste, almost anything goes. 

As long as you don't try to sew fine gloves with 1 mm thread or a saddle with very thin thread....

[Leather2]

Thank you Klara, that makes since

[Klara]

By the way, as I was working with chrome-tanned leather which doesn't mark well with wing dividers I drew my stitching line with a pen (special leather marker) and ruler (and a bit freehand in the curves), and it might be my best line yet... Meaning that you could even skip the wing dividers/groover for the moment if your budget is tight.

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Klara

[Leather2]

39 minutes ago, Klara said:

By the way, as I was working with chrome-tanned leather which doesn't mark well with wing dividers I drew my stitching line with a pen (special leather marker) and ruler (and a bit freehand in the curves), and it might be my best line yet... Meaning that you could even skip the wing dividers/groover for the moment if your budget is tight.

 

Thank you, at this point I plan to get a groover.

[zuludog]

OK, here are a few comments -- I assume you've stitched fabric, even if it's just to sew on a button or mend a tear?  You've probably never thought about it, but a needle does two things -- it pierces the fabric, and passes the thread through the cloth

You can't do that with leather as it is too thick & tough so we do the sewing in two stages - make the holes with a heavier, stronger tool, then pass the threaded needle through them......firstly you must set the distance & spacing of the holes, which can be done with a chisel with a set of short blunt teeth (called a pricking iron), or a stitching wheel to mark the positions, then make the actual holes with an awl. But this is quite tricky to do properly, so now that method has been mostly replaced by chisels with longer, sharper prongs, and they both set the spacing and make the holes in one go; these tools are called stitching chisels. Then you sew with blunt needles so they do not catch on the sides of the hole

You will need to mark the line of the stitching parallel to the edge of the leather. You can use a stitching groover, which cuts a small channel, or mark the line with dividers, which is becoming more popular

Like yourself, and, I think, many other people I started leatherwork to make sheaths, and here are some recommendations based on that

Watch videos........I started with a groover but now I use dividers

Yes, Tandy have a mixed reputation, but their Craftool Diamond Stitching Chisel is as good as any to get started; a  2 prong   4mm spacing #88046-02 is all you really need to get started. Lubricate the prongs with beeswax and use a soft hammer - wood, nylon, hide - or you will damage the chisel if you use a steel hammer

Typical leather thickness for sheaths is 3mm, so a front, back, & welt will be about 9 or 10mm, and a stitching chisel may not go all the way through. Complete the holes with a diamond/saddler's/harness awl

Traditionally you bought the blade & haft and fitted them together yourself, which is a fiddly, tedious job, so get one that's already made up, like a Vergez-Blanchard from Rocky Mountain Leather Supply, or an Osborne blade and an Osborne haft with a chuck or collet. I'd say medium for the V-G or #43 for the Osborne blade. You will need to sharpen & polish the awl, see YT videos

And speaking of awls, get a round awl aka scratch awl, they'rte cheap enough. It is used, as the name suggests, to mark out a pattern, but also for general prodding & poking. It is used to temporarily make stitching holes bigger by stretching them without cutting them; then the hole closes up afterwards

Choice of thread is a subject in itself. The usual diameter of thread for most sewing is 0,6mm. Synthetic thread is stronger, doesn't rot, and you can finish the sewing by heat sealing the ends. 

Although you can use hemp, silk, or cotton, natural thread almost always means linen. As a traditional industry, linen thread manufacture has developed its own way of doing things, which is quite complicated to explain. but all you need to know is that you want size18/3 linen thread, or 432 in the French system to be about 0,6mm diameter

So why use linen at all? Some people prefer the way it feels/handles, and think the colours look better....and they prefer sewing a natural material like leather with natural thread

No, linen is not as strong, but the point is that it is strong enough. I use synthetic for belt loops on sheaths and linen or synthetic for the body of the sheath

Ritza 25 is popular thread; it has a picture of a Tiger on the label so it is often called Tiger Thread. It is expensive as you must buy into a full reel, but some suppliers, including RMLS sell shorter lengths

Fil au Chinois is very good linen thread, if a bit expensive

RMLS sell their own linen and synthetic 'Twist' thread, and both are good. It is Yue Fung thread re-labelled for RMLS

There are other makes, enough altogether to confuse most people! I'm afraid the only way to find out what you like is to try some.......but the Twist or Tiger will get you started

John James make excellent needles, but their sizing system is confusing. I don't understand it, in fact I don't think many people do, but all you need to know is that for 0,6mm thread, John James Saddlers Harness Needles code L3912 size 002 is a good choice. If you want a smaller needle such as for 0,45 to 0,55mm thread, then size 004 is OK. NOTE - make sure you get size 002, and not 2/0, which are too big

Somewhere on RMLS website there is a comparison of thread sizes, diameters, and needles

If you have any questions, contact the suppliers - after all, it is in their interests to help you

The same sort of techniques, like saddle stitch, edge beveling & burnishing, are used on most leather items, whether it is sheaths, pouches, belts, or wallets, so watch as many videos as you have the stamina for, and see what other people use, and how they do things

[zuludog]

3 hours ago, Leather2 said:

So what size needle and thread would you recommend for making a knife sheath out of 8 oz leather?

I think 8oz is about 3mm. I would use size 002 needles and 0,6mm dia thread, and stitching chisels with 4 to 4,5mm spacing

Like any craft or hobby, sooner or later you just have to start somewhere and adapt as you gain experience, sure in the knowledge that whatever you get, a couple of months later you'll wish you'd chosen something else.......welcome to the fun!.

Oh, and a couple of other things --

There are all sorts of knives for leatherwork but a Stanley/utility/boxcutter is cheap and easy to use to start with. In fact if you watch videos by Ian Atkinson you'll see that he produces excellent work and mostly uses a Stanley knife. You can re-sharpen the blades; in fact even new blades work better if they've been stropped

Make yourself a strop, it's one of the easiest items of leatherwork you'll do; there are several videos on YT. Get a proper stropping compound, like green chromium dioxide

Here are some YT Channels to look at - Geordie Leather.....Ian Atkinson.....JH Leather.....Nigel Armitage....plus many more

Edited May 28, 2021 by zuludog

[Leather2]

1 hour ago, zuludog said:

I think 8oz is about 3mm. I would use size 002 needles and 0,6mm dia thread, and stitching chisels with 4 to 4,5mm spacing

Like any craft or hobby, sooner or later you just have to start somewhere and adapt as you gain experience, sure in the knowledge that whatever you get, a couple of months later you'll wish you'd chosen something else.......welcome to the fun!.

Oh, and a couple of other things --

There are all sorts of knives for leatherwork but a Stanley/utility/boxcutter is cheap and easy to use to start with. In fact if you watch videos by Ian Atkinson you'll see that he produces excellent work and mostly uses a Stanley knife. You can re-sharpen the blades; in fact even new blades work better if they've been stropped

Make yourself a strop, it's one of the easiest items of leatherwork you'll do; there are several videos on YT. Get a proper stropping compound, like green chromium dioxide

Here are some YT Channels to look at - Geordie Leather.....Ian Atkinson.....JH Leather.....Nigel Armitage....plus many more

thank you zuludog and everyone else. Can’t wait to get started!

[mike02130]

4 hours ago, Leather2 said:

Can’t wait to get started!

Get started.  Order up.