Pfaff double needle machine

[WeiFeng]

Hello all,

I’ve been slowly gathering the tools to redo the upholstery in my cars and with the help of this forum you have helped me successfully identify the first Consew 226 that I picked up a few weeks ago. I am back in the market for a double needle machine and found a Pfaff machine but cannot make heads or tales or find any pertinent information on the machine. It is a Pfaff 442-6101-900/51-BSN double needle machine.

I am seeking a double needle machine to be used primarily for sewing French seams. At this point I am not sure how functional the machine is, but as I stated earlier the internet is not providing any information on the machine or any possible needed parts.

Any help will be appreciated,

Best regards  

[Constabulary]

Don´t look up the full number, everything after 442 is the subclass that describes technical feature which may or may not come with the machine (machine could be technically altered).

Here are some files for the 442:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1226488/Pfaff-441-O.html#manual

https://usermanual.wiki/ACE-EASTMAN-PDF/Pfaff442144272004.1282822958

If it was me I would look for a Singer based double needle machine (like Seiko, Consew, Mitsubishi, Juki, Singer of course) because parts and accessories like feet and gauge sets (for different needle spaces) are a lot easier to find and a lot cheaper.

I have a Singer 212G141 needle feed machine and I´m pleased with it

Edited July 6, 2021 by Constabulary

[WeiFeng]

9 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Don´t look up the full number, everything after 442 is the subclass that describes technical feature which may or may not come with the machine (machine could be technically altered).

Ah, ha, I totally did not know that, and was drowning in all of those numbers, good stuff.

 

9 hours ago, Constabulary said:

If it was me I would look for a Singer based double needle machine (like Seiko, Consew, Mitsubishi, Juki, Singer of course) because parts and accessories like feet and gauge sets (for different needle spaces) are a lot easier to find and a lot cheaper.

I do believe that you’ve hit the nail squarely on the head with that sage advise, and guidance. With all things being equal, the inability to source needle spacers kinda renders the machine pretty much useless. 

I think I’ll move on and continue the search,

Thank you 

 

[Constabulary]

You are welcome. I`m using Singer machines only and that for a reason - or several reasons. But each to his own - others love Pfaff for their own good reasons.

[WeiFeng]

I do have on other question, though, because I don’t see any mention of a walking foot in any of the machines being sold. Is it standard operating procedure to have a walking foot on all double needle machines, or do they have to specifically say walking foot?

[Constabulary]

In short - "Walking foot" is rather collective term for machines where a presser foot is moving the material forward. Often "walking foot" is equated with triple feed but it actually is not the whole story.

Most double needle machines you find are needle feed machines (feed dog + needle feed the material). Some are  triple feed (feed dog + needle + presser foot feed the material) machines but you cannot turn a needle feed machine into a triple feed machine.

Quick guide to ID a triple feed machine : it has 3 bars (2 presser foot bars + 1 needle bar) and the needle feed machines have 2 bars (1 foot bar + 1 needle bar)

This video may be useful to ID different feeding mechanisms:

 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Constabulary

[WeiFeng]

Awesome, that spells things out very clearly.

What an education.

Best regards 

[DonInReno]

French seams do look nice!

While a walking foot dual needle machine will feed better over seams and whatnot, the old singer needle feed machines are about 30% cheaper and are commonly used in upholstery.   These would be the 112w140 or 212g140, or other variant.   The needle helps pull the material along, helping the feed dog.

Every once in a while I’ll see one for under $200.    
 
The slightly newer bullnose 212 machines have an automatic, or semiautomatic oiling system that was better for production sewing, but there is no other advantage over the 112 series machines.

I’ll probably eventually get rid of mine and upgrade to a walking foot dual needle, but the needle feed was cheap and a good introduction to dual needle machines.

[WeiFeng]

19 minutes ago, DonInReno said:

While a walking foot dual needle machine will feed better over seams and whatnot, the old singer needle feed machines are about 30% cheaper and are commonly used in upholstery.   These would be the 112w140 or 212g140, or other variant.   The needle helps pull the material along, helping the feed dog.

This is an interesting piece of information. I can see how it will help broaden the search to include these other options that you mention. Although I’d like to have a feature rich machine any day of the week, the reality is a double needle machine will be used as a dedicated single purpose tool for producing French seams, and realistically, it will only see occasional use. I obviously have no way of knowing where this endeavor will lead in terms of mandating a triple feed machine, but depending on which machine I am able to secure at the start of this project, I will cross whatever bridges I come to when I get to them. 

37 minutes ago, DonInReno said:

The slightly newer bullnose 212 machines have an automatic, or semiautomatic oiling system that was better for production sewing, but there is no other advantage over the 112 series machines.

As far as I have come to know, those automatic oiling machines aren’t necessarily the right tool for the jobs that I want to do. If I’m not  mistaken, don’t those automatic oilers have oil pans underneath with some sort of pump that lubricates the machine while it is in use? If indeed that is how they work, then that would seem to make any one of them inappropriate for the style of sewing that I envision for myself. Isn’t the function of the self oilers predicated on high speed of the machines in order for the oil to flow through the system? Contrary to that type of speed, I will be looking to slow the machine down to crawling speeds which would seem to mean that the machine would almost always be running dry, because that pumping action would never be able to do it’s job. I’m of the mindset that a self oiler would be most appropriate.      

I appreciate the insight, very helpful 

[WeiFeng]

2 hours ago, DonInReno said:

These would be the 112w140 or 212g140, or other variant.

Would you happen to know the largest thread size that these machines can handle?

[DonInReno]

On the top, the tensioners are the same as single needle machines that sew 138 size thread.   On the bottom end it gets a little more complicated.    Some, especially the older models, use the same hooks as are found on walking foot single needle machines and they will sew up to 138 as well.    However, some are set up for lighter weigh fabrics and the hooks may max out at 92 or even 69 size thread.   The walking foot machines are more likely to be set up for thicker thread, while the needle feed may be set up for heavy canvas or very light fabric.

Also watch out for retired factory machines that were used with binders - for instance mine spent its entire life sewing canvas straps of some kind and the binding attachment protected the bed from obvious wear.    These machines can have paint that looks brand new, but the mechanicals may be worn out.     Mine had been rebuilt many times, but all the replacement parts were high quality so I was lucky.

Its always a good idea to sew on a potential machine with the thread and leather you intend to use.  If that’s not possible I force myself to reduce the top dollar by 25% or so.    If the needle set is not the width you want to use, a cheap import set will run $50 to $75, so factor that in.    

[WeiFeng]

11 hours ago, DonInReno said:

On the top, the tensioners are the same as single needle machines that sew 138 size thread.   On the bottom end it gets a little more complicated.    Some, especially the older models, use the same hooks as are found on walking foot single needle machines and they will sew up to 138 as well.    However, some are set up for lighter weigh fabrics and the hooks may max out at 92 or even 69 size thread.   The walking foot machines are more likely to be set up for thicker thread, while the needle feed may be set up for heavy canvas or very light fabric.

Ah ha, the plot thickens, and all that glitters is truly not gold. It is so true that the more you know, the more you need to know.

The double needle will obviously hold down the folded edge (I don’t know the technical term) but the top stitches will be more of a decorative pattern, which brings the thread size to the fore. My guess is a 138 thread size would be considered standard, or maybe a minimum in terms of visual appeal.

It seems to me that when pursuing needle feed machines it behooves you to know all of the particular nuances of said machine. That great money saving deal could potentially end up exceeding the cost of the more expensive machine that should have been purchased in the first place.

11 hours ago, DonInReno said:

The walking foot machines are more likely to be set up for thicker thread

Therein lies one of the main differences between the various material feeding systems, and as I think about it (which now seems foolishly obvious) the material as well as sewing style will pretty much dictate the appropriate type of machine that is needed to accomplish the particular job. In my case material thickness is negligible, sewing speed is a none event, compound feed isn’t exceedingly necessary, but at the end of the day it seems that a machine capable of handling larger thread sizes of say 138 - 207 will likely rule the day. I can only imagine how much more narrow the field of search has shrunk with this new revelation.

Edited July 8, 2021 by WeiFeng

[chrisash]

I am not sure I understand the need for a double needle to make French seams as they are only another sewing line on each side of a seam holding down the overlap

What am I missing

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by chrisash

[Constabulary]

As you figured you don´t need a double needle machine but it is faster and more accurate (depending on your skills) as you see in the sneak peek picture of that video the seam stitches are not 100% equal (this may matter or not depends on your or your customers expectations.)

[WeiFeng]

4 hours ago, chrisash said:

I am not sure I understand the need for a double needle to make French seams as they are only another sewing line on each side of a seam holding down the overlap

What am I missing

You are 100% correct and aren’t missing anything. The double needle machine is solely sought after to mask my own inexperience. Those parallel stitches are the finishing touches to any upholstery project. The eye is immediately drawn to the visual effect of how well the stitches are laid down. In my mind, if the stitches are well proportioned and evenly spaced then the only thing that I would have to worry about is sewing a straight line once. Of course if I am unable to locate a machine that is able to handle the larger thread sizes at what I may deem a reasonable price, I will obviously be forced to grind out those seams one at a time like you guys are able to. 

[WeiFeng]

3 hours ago, Constabulary said:

As you figured you don´t need a double needle machine but it is faster and more accurate (depending on your skills)

Accuracy along with my skill level is the whole point of this exercise.

3 hours ago, Constabulary said:

the seam stitches are not 100% equal (this may matter or not depends on your or your customers expectations.)

Again, this is the point. In my case (at least for now) I am my own customer. I ultimately decided to take on the challenge of reupholstering my own cars interiors primarily because I couldn’t find anyone that I could trust to provide the results that I wanted. Some years back I was referred to a guy in Southern California that was supposedly an expert in recovering the original Recaro seats (Classic C & Ideal C) from the 1980’s. I live in the Midwest and drove the 2,000 miles and hand delivered the two chairs, all of the panels, and the hand selected matching leather that was obtained from the Hide House up in Napa. It took the better part of a year before I was able to get the parts back, and the labor still set me back a big chunk of change. In all fairness at that time the guy was semi retired, but nonetheless he has since then closed up shop. He did a wonderful job, though. Since then I have searched tirelessly trying to find someone else that is able to reupholster these Recaro chairs. Believe it or not, all that I have approached either said they are unable or I’ll see what I can do. Well, rather than seeing what someone else can do (which I find totally unacceptable) I decided to see what I can do myself. The reason being is my own satisfaction level. If I do it and it doesn’t meet my satisfaction there won’t be anyone to blame and I can live with that, but if someone else doesn’t meet expectations I will still have to pay for it. Also, I’d be crazy to go to all this trouble for one set of chairs as I have several other cars to deal with. I expect that at some point through this process my competence level will become satisfactory. In order to do this, I just like all of you will have to brave the gauntlet, and one of the best way to go into battle is to have the best tools for the job, thus the double needle sewing machine.  

Edited July 8, 2021 by WeiFeng

[DonInReno]

Once you have a double needle, there are a number of fun projects that you might never have thought of - I like the look of a 1/4” double seam next to some heavy duty zippers, and it holds heavy material flat if nothing else.   Sometimes a single exposed row of stitching just looks sparse and if the rows are close together a second row has to be exact or it really catches the eye.

Also be on the lookout for zipper feet - essentially just a more compact foot with less side clearance - these are my favorite for general use.   At least I’ve never thought to myself, “It would be nice if this foot was bigger and more clunky.”  Lol

Ive been a fan of Cechaflo on YouTube if you haven’t seen his videos.  

 

[WeiFeng]

52 minutes ago, DonInReno said:

Once you have a double needle, there are a number of fun projects that you might never have thought of

Yeah, see, that’s the thing about shopping for the best tools that you can afford as opposed to purchasing something that will barely get you by just because it’s cheap. As you’ve accurately pointed out, there most likely projects ahead that I may never have seen coming that probably have nothing to do with auto upholstery.   

1 hour ago, DonInReno said:

Sometimes a single exposed row of stitching just looks sparse and if the rows are close together a second row has to be exact or it really catches the eye.

See, now those are the words of an experienced voice that will take some time before I am able to express, but in the mean time I can do everything possible to prepare myself with the right type of equipment. 

1 hour ago, DonInReno said:

Ive been a fan of Cechaflo on YouTube if you haven’t seen his videos.

I have not seen all of his videos, but I watched quite a few, though, and I too am a big fan. That guy is extremely talented.

After discovering that there are a few more things to consider when searching for a double needle machine as opposed to the single needles, the availability between the groups are vastly different. There are a lot less double needle machines on the market then there are single needle machines. This disparity presents a huge problem in terms of searching for any particular model of machine. To make matters worst I find it hard to put faith in most of what can be found on Fleebay. This is starting to feel like finding the right machine may take a lot longer than I had imagined. 

[DonInReno]

9 hours ago, WeiFeng said:

After discovering that there are a few more things to consider when searching for a double needle machine as opposed to the single needles, the availability between the groups are vastly different. There are a lot less double needle machines on the market then there are single needle machines. This disparity presents a huge problem in terms of searching for any particular model of machine. To make matters worst I find it hard to put faith in most of what can be found on Fleebay. This is starting to feel like finding the right machine may take a lot longer than I had imagined. 

It’s been a while, so last night I scanned for a double needle to see what pops up.   I found a few that were mislabeled as single needle, and a few more that the owners didn’t know what they were at all.    Some of the best deals that have popped up in the past were long arm machines in the $500 range - at that price they get snatched up very quickly so you have to be quick. Lol

Now that you’re getting farther in the search, keep in mind that most older Singer models have a near duplicate Consew, juki, or other lesser known brand.  
 

 

[LindanHotAir]

One configuration that works well for me is a Singer 212W140 with a Galkin puller. It is a needle or compound feed and the puller provides a positive feed without marking the top of the material. The 212 lubrication system has a  reservoir under the top cover with a weight on a spring that makes waves in the oil that transfer oil to the wicks. The hooks have reservoirs under them that are supposed to supply oil to the hook race but you need to check to see if it works and oil manually. There are several oiling points that the wicks don’t reach that must be oiled manually. There is no oil pan, just a drip pan.