singer 45k clearence between 98607 and needle

[Deeio]

Hi there, I am new and not with english as my first language, so apologies.

 

3 days ago I traded a Singer 45k flatbed, for something else, without really having a chance to try it for real. 

I am not happy with it, the sometimes the needle comes up with the thread tangled around among many other things. Now that I have it lying on my workbench i come to notice that the needle touches the part the shuttle racer is in ( simanco 98607). is that normal? it seems to be eating up my needles. can i move the whole assembly away from the needle, towards the handwheel (right).

I also have come to notice that the needle is awkwardly close to the right of the hole of the pressure foot. Doesnt change with different needles. could the needle bar be bent? could this upper part be changed in inclination?

[Deeio]

...anothe issue is the super high tension of the lower thread, and that it seems to get caught on the shuttle (-racer???). see picture. does that part normally have 1.5mm of give axially?

[shoepatcher]

1.-  back the tension off the needle.  What size needle and thread you using?

2. -needle  is blunt you are using

3.  Needle needs to be centered the feed dog hole from left to right and back to front.

4.  Sub class Model of 45K?

glenn

 

 

[Deeio]

hi glenn, thanks for taking the time to answer!

1. it does it with all kind of needle sizes and tips and thread sizes

2. i know

3. how do i achieve that? geometry of holes is given

4. i have no idea what subclass that is. i post a pic of the maxhine as a whole. 

[ljk]

This is my 45k before restoration, A $50 purchase. After electrolysis, BP Blaster, acetone mixed with auto trans. fluid I did get it working.  I polished all parts of hook area and now works well with 277.

My needle was too far from the hook and I bent the needle bar closer.  I bent in the area of the needle attachment.  My other choice was the shuttle carrier which I could have punched or drilled out moved and threaded. My experience with singer parts is the metal is more tough (ductile) than hard and brittle I speaking of steel not iron casting.  I took a chance and it worked. I use dd2x point needle more of a rounded chisel point which cuts well and makes for a nice look on the bobbin side.

[Uwe]

@Deeio  I suspect that shuttle hook is an aftermarket part, not an original Singer. There a many aftermarket shuttle hooks that will “fit” inside the race, but not all will work equally well. You may need to get a new hook that is closer to the original Singer design. 

The seemingly too-tight lower thread tension is very likely caused by the upper thread snagging on the shuttle barrel. In your picture it’s the top thread that snags on the barrel as it gets pulled around the shuttle hook. The snag will pull more upper thread from the spool and then the thread take-up lever has no chance of pulling the knot tight. Again, a better shuttle hook with different barrel geometry solve this problem. Or moving the shuttle hook away from the needle may also work.

The needle guard surface of the shuttle driver also looks quite worn. The needle is supposed to gently touch the needle guard surface as it goes down. This will prevent the needle from coming too close to the hook. On your shuttle driver, that needle guard surface looks like it has been ground down by many needle that got deflected way too much. I marked the area in blue. You can see gouge marks as if they were made with a file. 

This what that needle guard surface on the shuttle driver is supposed to look like. The bright surface is the needle guard surface that the needle is supposed to lightly brush up against.

You’ll need to either move the shuttle driver away from the needle (the shuttle driver position IS adjustable) I have a feeling that the needle bar position is not adjustable - your needle bar may simply be bent for some reason and may need to be replaced.

 

Your shuttle hook also has a slightly different geometry in the notch that is ground in the top behind the tip of the hook. On your hook this angled ground surface appears to start farther behind the tip of the hook than the original 45K hook. Here’s an photo with that cutout marked in red. The dashed line is just for reference. The hook in this picture has a cutout that starts well before the dashed line. On your hook the cutout appears to start right at the dotted line.

I think the purpose of the cutout is provide clearance for the needle as it moves up and the thicker part below the scarf of the needle moves past the hook.

 

I’m far away from my machines, so I have to rely on images sourced online.

 

[jimi]

Hi Deeio, If your Shuttle driver is# 98607 then this is the driver used in the 45k1,5,11 and 92 and the shuttles used in this parts manual are #98622,95096,95084 the last 2 i think being obsolete and says only #98622 will work with the #98607 driver. You machine looks like it has missing parts? the head looks like a old class 80 maybe? can you take some pictures from the front of the head and back. If it is a 80 then the balance wheel had 3 speeds, It is converted to a normal K1 type i think?? also you are missing the mass on the treadle?? unless it is on the other end?

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by jimi

[Deeio]

hi jimi,

 

i post some pictures, but i can already tell from what you are saying that my worries, that is some kind of concoction, is coming true... so the matching shuttle i am going to match with the driver?

[Deeio]

@uwe

many thanks also to you for the extensive and patient reply 

i got the shuttle driver moved farther away (right) from the needle, about 1mm, polished with a felt biffing wheel the shuttle and bobing casing and removed the dragmarks on the shuttle hook, where the thread liked to snag, the overall improvement is marginal. i might consider a new shuttle, bit dont know what machine, which subclass  i actually have- does it have to match most of all the shuttle driver ( jimi ruled out other pairments earlier) . how much play does it have normally? right now its about 1,5mm and tilting around the swivel axis is also significant, unable to measure that.

the actual shuttle:

Edited November 19, 2021 by Deeio
spelling

[Constabulary]

Your shuttle is a NÄHMATAG shuttle made in Germany. NÄHMATAG made quality after market parts but to OEM Specs for all kind of sewing machines. And I believe they back then made the OEM shuttles for the Singer factory in Wittenberge too. I have used a lot of different shuttles from various makers (but no Chinese) in my 45D and several different machines of the same class (CLAES, Adler....). To be honest I never had issues with any shuttle. ATM I run an Adler closed frame shuttle in my 45D.

I´m not sure but is it possible that you insert the needle with the scarf to the left? The needle scarf has to face right / to the side where the hook catches the thread loop. Also check the needle hook timing / height of needle bar.

You machine is missing the blade spring on the rear side and some other parts for controlling the jump foot as it seems.

 

EDIT:

just noticed the plain long shaft foot on the foot bar so seems the jump foot mechanism has been removed.

 

EDIT II:

Can you post a picture from the left side of your machine - I´m not sure but looks like the complete lower tension unit is missing. That could be part of your issues.

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Constabulary

[Deeio]

hi constabulary, thanks for your opinion. 

the needle has the scarf to the right .

i will see if i will be able to adjust the height of the needle bar.

is that blade spring-thingy part of every singer 45k? even without jumpfoot?

the issue with the shuttle is just that i dont know what machine i own and buying one new chinashuttle or whatever is its origin, is pure chance

 

has somebody tried to let the thead run through a piece of a candle, to reduce friction? the needles like to get stuck, even without thread.

[Constabulary]

To be honest I do not think the shuttle is the problem. Your shuttle really looks good. The machine seems to be down graded for what ever reason. I think the machine is (or was) a 45K58.

Please post a picture from the left side. I think parts are missing.

[Deeio]

there is just a roller instead of the lower tension assembly

[Constabulary]

Huh - to be honest I haven´t seen this before - looks different to what I have seen so far. I do not think it is a 45K58.

Maybe JIMI knows more - he is the 45k whisperer

Edited November 19, 2021 by Constabulary

[Deeio]

19 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

Huh - to be honest I haven´t seen this before - looks different to what I have seen so far. I do not think it is a 45K58.

Maybe JIMI knows more - he is the 45k whisperer

[jimi]

Hahaha! whisperer....

This is the one i think your machine was?

On the treadle you are missing the big heavy mass wheel weight.

[Deeio]

....the missing rotating mass would explain why it runs so unwillingly.

i saw the picture of the catalogue speaking of the -80subclass, i think it was availble on one of your older posts, thanks nevertheless!

 

does anybody know how much play this shuttle usually have, or is allowed to have in order to work properly?

[jimi]

Sorry Deeio, i did not see your post....yes it should have some play to let the thread pass,  from the shuttle hook to the driver. I think this was the reason they had 2 types of shuttle....one for thinner thread and one for thicker. Not 100% sure as it does not state this anywhere but if you look at the corner tips of the shuttles i think i can see a slight difference which would allow for thicker thread to pass. The shuttle in your picture was used with the 45k52 machine and the#91173 driver.

Edited November 26, 2021 by jimi