Post Or Flat Bed

[Pyxie]

Hi guys, first post. Long time lurker. Got loads of tips and inspiration from this site so thank you.

I mostly hand-stich and have started using a Singer 201k for softer leather bags.

I am interested in something a bit more substantial. I recently used industrial machines on a shoe making course (it was very impressive). They had a flat bed and a post. I can not afford both. What are the pros and cons? What are the main uses for both please.

Many thanks in advance,

Pyxie

[Northmount]

Not sure if you are confusing a cylinder arm machine with a post bed machine.

I would go for a cylinder arm machine with an adapter table attachment. With the cylinder arm, you can reach inside a purse or other object. Depends on the size of the object and the cylinder arm. Then add the table for flat stitching. Don't have to have two separate machines then for the same thread size, etc.

Make sure it is a walking foot style.

If you haven't read Wiz's pinned post on leather sewing machines, I recommend you do so now.

Tom

[Art]

Most post bed machines are limited to 33, 46, 69, and 92 thread; maybe 138 if you run 92 or preferably 69 in the bobbin, but i've never needed or had luck with that. A flat bed is good for sewing garments and some decorating (like boot tops). The cylinder arm is pretty useful and can do most anything with planning. When you design a bag, if you only have one type of machine like a cylinder arm, you have to plan how you are going to close the bag and do any inside work to the pieces before you close. If you take in repairs, then the post can save you time on some repairs. If the thread limitations are not a problem, then a post is nice to have, but I bought a cylinder and a flatbed before I bought the post. The post has probably paid for itself, but it is just a convenience really, I could do without it, there is hand sewing if necessary and everyone should know how to do that. It is harder to sew a straight line with a post, but you learn to pay attention; it will however sew right up to the edge of something if necessary.

Art

[Techsew Ron]

For leather bags you're probably best off with a cylinder machine and add a flatbed attachment if available. A narrow cylinder arm will allow you to sew into hard to reach areas and the insides of a bag.

I'd say about 95% of our customers making handbags use a cylinder machine, whereas post machines are more commonly used for shoe and boot production.

Ron

[Cobra Steve]

I agree with both Ronnie and Art. Most of our bag making customers have both machines but I would purchase the cylinder arm machine, like the COBRA Class 4 first. Versatility is the key. Go to our website and go to the video page, there is a lady by the name of Hedley Pepper making a purse/bag.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Cobra Steve

[Wizcrafts]

Post machines are good for Cowboy and dress hats and hatbands, biker and ball caps, shoe uppers, mocs and oddball repairs that need to hand down both sides of the needle. They are rarely used by leather "crafters" and more widely by shoe and hat makers.

[Pyxie]

Thank you very much everyone. You have helped a lot. I am a hobbyist so I do not want or need whistles and bells. At the moment I am looking for decent 2nd hand Cylinder walking foot. A Singer 153 for instance.

Great stuff.

If I could figure out how to post pictures I would show you a bit of my stuff.

thanks again.

P

[Art]

I used to recommend a lot of used machines, and still do for someone who is capable of dealing with them. But time has passed, and these machines, while still around and doing yeoman's work, are getting a little long in the tooth for serious work. The 153w101 and 2 and 3 are based on the venerable 111 with the addition of the riser and the arm. Parts for both these machine classes are not getting any easier to find and for some of the sub-classes darned near impossible without a ransom. These machines were and are still great for medium duty leatherwork. Fortunately, some of the manufacturers realized that and make quite similar machines that have a few more capabilities than their predecessors. The 227R comes to mind. This can be found at Bob Kovar's Toledo Sewing Machine, a good place to do business. Usually you can get these with either the large or small bobbin, and for my dollars, I've never needed the small shaft that comes with the small bobbin, and don't you just hate to run out?

So, for the sake of a dollar (or a bunch of them) don't jump into the used end of the pool unless you can swim.

Art

[Darren Brosowski]

Seiko still builds the 153 and 158 class as the LSC and LSW so parts will be around for a while

I used to recommend a lot of used machines, and still do for someone who is capable of dealing with them. But time has passed, and these machines, while still around and doing yeoman's work, are getting a little long in the tooth for serious work. The 153w101 and 2 and 3 are based on the venerable 111 with the addition of the riser and the arm. Parts for both these machine classes are not getting any easier to find and for some of the sub-classes darned near impossible without a ransom. These machines were and are still great for medium duty leatherwork. Fortunately, some of the manufacturers realized that and make quite similar machines that have a few more capabilities than their predecessors. The 227R comes to mind. This can be found at Bob Kovar's Toledo Sewing Machine, a good place to do business. Usually you can get these with either the large or small bobbin, and for my dollars, I've never needed the small shaft that comes with the small bobbin, and don't you just hate to run out?

So, for the sake of a dollar (or a bunch of them) don't jump into the used end of the pool unless you can swim.

Art

The Consew 227R (a Seiko) is still in production and the same machine as the original Singer

I used to recommend a lot of used machines, and still do for someone who is capable of dealing with them. But time has passed, and these machines, while still around and doing yeoman's work, are getting a little long in the tooth for serious work. The 153w101 and 2 and 3 are based on the venerable 111 with the addition of the riser and the arm. Parts for both these machine classes are not getting any easier to find and for some of the sub-classes darned near impossible without a ransom. These machines were and are still great for medium duty leatherwork. Fortunately, some of the manufacturers realized that and make quite similar machines that have a few more capabilities than their predecessors. The 227R comes to mind. This can be found at Bob Kovar's Toledo Sewing Machine, a good place to do business. Usually you can get these with either the large or small bobbin, and for my dollars, I've never needed the small shaft that comes with the small bobbin, and don't you just hate to run out?

So, for the sake of a dollar (or a bunch of them) don't jump into the used end of the pool unless you can swim.

Art

[Pyxie]

Bought one, second hand, from a place in Street, Glastonbury: Seiko PWB 8GW, with Mitsubishi servo motor.

Very Happy. Thanks for thoughts and help.

P

Pic of it and my first three practices

[nascenta]

As an addendum to this thread, I would like to know:

has anyone has tried making a table attachment for a post bed machine?

My wife is tired of me using her bernina and insists i get my own machine for my canvas, leather and cordura... Creations (for lack of a better word. i play with bags, hammocks,tarps, etc.)

Someone up here is selling a golden wheel cs8810 that is relatively inexpensive. Any input would be appreciated greatly. For the same money i could also get a singer 31k47 from 1943 but it has a clutch motor, not a servo like the post bed. Any thoughts?

[dikman]

I whipped this one up when I first got the machine, a bit basic but I wanted to see if the idea would work.

Edited March 7, 2016 by dikman

[Uwe]

I'm voting for the single needle version of the Durkopp Adler H868 reinforced post-bed machine. Its specs include needle sizes up to 250 , 25mm foot lift, and a 3XL bobbin fit for size queens. Unfortunately, if you need to ask how much it is, you can't afford it. But if you need it, you need it.

[nascenta]

Thank you Dikman, for the pictures. That is exactly what I am envisioning. How did the attachment work for you?

[dikman]

The table itself works fine, but for now I've given up on the post-bed and put it to one side. The presser wheel is great, as it lets me get in real close to the edge, but it has a nasty tendency to break needles! If I try to use anything too thick it can cause a very slight deflection of the needle which then hits the needle plate with inevitable results!

I'll come back to it at some point in the future, but for now I don't need it as the two flat beds and the cylinder arm (all walking foot) are more than adequate for my needs.

[nascenta]

Good to know. I've never used a post bed and it sounds like a table attachment with one is not as functional as a cylinder arm. Since this will be my first industrial type machine I've decided to get the singer 31k57 since it is only $300 and it works fine. It's a start. I looked at a grey Pfaff 335 last week but the guy wanted $1900 cnd for it. I can't justify that kind of money right now. Thanks for your input.

Edited March 8, 2016 by nascenta

[dikman]

31K57? I couldn't find that model, have you got the right number? The 335 is a nice machine, I'm finding out, and a cylinder arm is potentially more versatile, but we all have to start somewhere and if you can pick up a good flatbed walking foot it's a good place to start. While a post bed is a nifty bit of gear, it's a bit specialized and limited if you're going to be doing a lot of "general" leatherwork.

[nascenta]

I agree. Thanks. The singer is a 31-47. Sorry about that.

[dikman]

The 31-47 looks like a nice machine to start with. Best thing to do is get the manual and become familiar with how it works and the adjustments needed to keep it running properly.