Monster Flange For Speed Reducer :-D

[Constabulary]

I recently "liberated" some parts of an old ADLER work stand. I looked through my records and figured it is from the 1940´s (manual printed in 1947)

One of the legs had a HUGE cast iron flange bolted on.The stand was meant for a treadle driven Adler 4 or 5.

The flange weights about 8 pounds and has a 3/4" shaft. This thing is really MASSIVE!

I have the same stand (but restored) on my current machine table so the flange will serve me as amount for a speed reducer sooner or later.

I just wanted to share this

Edited February 19, 2014 by Constabulary

[Wishful]

Scheming to make a speed reducer too. Please keep us posted on your progress

[cdthayer]

What do you plan to use to shim it out "into the field of play", so to speak? Won't it have to come out a long way?

CD in Oklahoma

[Constabulary]

Let me try to explain...

Since I have limited space for "lots of" different sewing machines my idea is to make my current table a "universal table". I´m already using it with 2 flat bed machines (Singer 111G156 + 306 G2) both machines fit in the same cutout and have same hand wheel position for the V-Belt so they can use the same bobbin winder as well.

Since it is a quite long table (about 60" x 24") I´m planing to put 2 different cylinder machines (Pfaff 335 + Adler 105 or Singer 153 + Singer 45K or something similar) to the left edge of the table. Each machines will be bolted on a about 12" x12" wooden plate and these plates will be bolted to the table the way they can use the same motor with just different V-belts.

With other words, I will have 2 motors and use 4 machines on just one table - Thats the idea

I have collected a nice lot of parts from vintage Adler work stands (or tables) so I will put an additional leg to the left side of my current table and on this leg I will bolt the "monster flange" for the speed reducer with 3 or 4 pulleys (step pulley - or how do you call it) and this step pulley can be set on different positions on the shaft. The step pulley will have ball bearings and will have adjustment rings on the right and left side so I can move it on the shaft. The flange fits exactly to the 4 square holes in the middle of the legs.

I hope I explained it well - D' ya understand what I mean?

At the moment it is just and Idea...

So here is the current situation:

Edited February 19, 2014 by Constabulary

[Constabulary]

My work stand "spare parts"

Edited February 19, 2014 by Constabulary

[J Hayes]

http://harborfreight.com/500-lb-horizontal-toggle-clamp-96233.html

Might aid in the speed of the cylinder arm machine swap?

[Constabulary]

These take to much space on the table. I will use wing bolts or so. Speed is not important. I´m doing this as a hobby so I have all the time

[Constabulary]

Today I received the two step pulley made after my specs.

A sealed ball bearing on both sides for 15mm shaft, pulleys are 2", 4" and 6", milled out of aluminum. Each pulley cost me 40€ (about $55) incl. shipping. I´m quite impressed of the quality.

I´m getting closer to my idea...

Edited April 10, 2014 by Constabulary

[electrathon]

I like the pully. I made one very similar a few weeks ago for my Pfaff. I did not have the 3 groves, just two. I was going for as much reduction as possible.

[Constabulary]

Just finished the 1st speed reducer. I wanted it the way that I can move the step pulley on the shaft. Thats not necessary but just for the case... You never know. The one with the monster flange will follow later.

Some pictures:

[Trox]

Nice Job Constabulary, I actually bought my speed reducers from Germany too (Chinese cast two speed iron, ball bearing from Hightex/Cowboy) I paid about 50 $ for two. I ordered them from China and they sent them to their German agent, Sieck International (Sieck.de). If they have more of them I guess the price will be higher now. This was some years ago. The reason I tell you this is because I know its not that easy to get low priced speed reducers in Europe, (as you may already be aware of).

Tor

[electrathon]

I am guessing there are only so many ways to make stuff.

[SARK9]

There's a thousand ways to skin the roads that lead to Rome.

-DC

[Constabulary]

@ TROX - You are right, almost no way to find them in Europe. I surly could have asked at Sieck or other companies but seems no one over here offers them regularly and before I mail and call around all over Europe I decided to go this way. It is still cheaper than ordering them from the US and pay shipping + taxes on top. And mine is very versatile to use. This one cost me about 50€ or slight less. Furthermore I like the puzzling very much...

@ SARK9 - holy cow, what a reduction. What diameter has the large pulley? Or is is just looking big?

I like the mount very much. I wanted to have a similar one but then I found the old sewing motor mount in my parts box. It works and cost me nothing.

[SARK9]

I think that one is about a 9.75"--2" on the O.D.'s... Occasionally we get a nice "slug" like that left over from machining a big hole in thick plate. One of the extrusions we use also leaves a nice scrap which makes a telescoping mount pretty easy.

I have to say the photos of your (111w156?) caused a good bit of bench envy in these parts. VERY nice.

-DC

[Trox]

Hi Constabulary,

thats right its a pain in the......... to get them here. A Norwegian company wanted 450$ to order one for me. And with Norwegian salaries a custom job in would be three times that amount. Nobody sells budget servo motors either. And if you go a head and buy a Efka 1550 or equal, you cannot use a speed reducer (you do not need one either).

The new style digital servo motors like Efka 1550 or Ho Sing equal, do not use their position head to control the distance they drive. Like the old Efka variostop motors do, where you adjust the needle position in the synchronizer head; (on the fly wheel). New motors have that same head to count belt slippage only. These motors are made for flange mount or direct drive on the sewing machines main shaft. A qog/gear wheel reducer would work very good on them.

If you where to use a normal speed reducer on such system; you got to put that sync. head on the speed reducer and not on the machines fly wheel. A bit off topic, nevertheless important information to take in consider when building up a heavy leather sewing machine setup.

I use such Efka 1550 on my 441 clone and it do not need any speed reducer, just like Efka promise. You have to pay more for the motor, get a good one with lots of build on options, good speed control and lots of power (up to 1800 Watt and 8 Nm torque, motor can be turned up in parameter settings). You do not need several tensioned V belts that steals allot of power from the application, you get video phone support from Efka for free (they help you until your machine sews as you want it to do).

On my 441 I use only half the power of the motor.

I have two such systems now (sold one) Efka DC 1600 on my DA 267-373 and a DC 1550/ AB 321 control box on my 441 clone. And next time I set up a machine for my self I will pay the little extra for the quality and performance of a Efka system. I am sorry to say so; Chinese do not master the sewing machine motor build yet; not by far. Their machines are now acceptable, motors are far behind the Japanese and Germans ones. Some of these Chinese motor will not pass the European CE control either, some wont stop sewing when you let your foot off... danger! Its important to have a cheap option anyway, I hope they will be better soon.

Anyway, I love your custom made speed reducers. Sark9 and Electrathon you both did a great job!

I want to show you how one of our members built a speed reducer, I think he used a washing machine pulley. And this was some years ago before others made this same system. (I am not sure when exactly)

Next: a Swedish Cobra owner living on a boat with limited space available, this is a good way to mount a new motor. A better way would be using the same belting they use on Harley Davidson custom bikes; toothed belts and pulleys.

Next: my Efka/441 setup; lots of space here.

Next: My old Adler 204/ Efka variostop (sold); not much space here, I had to improvise. It does not look any good, thought.

And last my Pfaff 345/cobra and reducer; motor are strong enough without the reducer. I do not know why I used a reducer; I think I was not satisfied with the low speed part of it. (Its now fixed with some tape in the light control; it lost some speed but are much better)

Last pic`s: my 441, Pfaff 345 /cobra servo, Efka DC 1600/DA 267-373 setup, the DC 1550 I use on my 441 clone.

Well it was a bit of a side step; nevertheless motors are closely connected to the reducer topic.

Thanks

Tor

Edited May 6, 2014 by Trox

[cdthayer]

I like seeing everyone’s speed reducers. I came up with an 11” x 2” step pulley that I’d like to put on my H-leg stand that I have my Singer 111G156 in. I’ve got to find a bracket for it yet, or have one made.

CD in Oklahoma

[Constabulary]

Trox - nice pictures and great information!

If I had enough "money to play with" or would to this for a living and have enough output I´d probably choose an EFKA as well but my budget is limited. I cannot spend a month salary for just a motor. But think this is the better investment on the long view than any of these Chinese motors.I´d say It´s a compromise to buy these Chinese motors.

As I said before - I like the puzzling and always try to get the most out of my money.

Thats one reason why I like the vintage / used industrial Singer + Adler machines so much. They are build like tanks and if they are well serviced they will last for decades or even a century! And in terms of the motor - my compromise is a Chinese motor + speed reducer.

You know which motor system I like best? It´s the system they use on the smaller Moretti motors (Pfaff, WEG, Kobold, Siemens and some others used it as well). I don´t know how it is called in English in Germany they are called "Anlassermotor". Don´t know why there is no such motor with enough power for industrial machines. They are reliable, easy to service and do not make much noise. I´m just working on a friends old Singer 96 which has such a motor (made by WEG) and I really like it!!! But I think technically this system has it´s limits (but don´t know for sure).

@ CD

Why such a large pulley? Is it really necessary?

[Trox]

Hi Constabulary, I did not start out with expensive Efka`s either; first I used old Adler's with 3 phase clutch motors/frequency converters for many years. Bought and sold old machines and still have some old Adler's,(cl.105, cl. 5, cl 30 and a couple of postbed`s),Upgraded my equipment as time goes by. I started out with an beaten up class 30 as my first machine; still have it (I do not use it any more because I have an upgrade)

I know of Ocel Moretti motors they have a new position motor that is half the price of an Efka, unfortunately not strong enough for big machines. Their clutch motors are famous. Check their web site, this is not my own PC and I am not able to use copy/paste on it so you must use a Google search.

When I translate "Anlassermotor" I get "starter motor" in English. Perhaps you mean a gear motor, with internal speed reducer (gears). They sell them for industrials too; Chinese made but only 110V. However, you can use any AC 3 phase gear motor on your machine with an frequency converter as a control box. They convert to single phase and let you control all motor parameters. You can attach a pot meter/ pedal for the speed control. I used this system on my three phase clutch motors, have one on my Adler class 5-27. You can go as slow you want; one stitch a minute if you want too and you still have the clutch if you want to use that. Its a very good system, that's probably my favorite. You get used to the position system and wont use anything else; needle always stops where it should stop. Its fast and easy, labor saving. I love the old Adler machines too, they lay down a beautiful stitch. However, they cant to the same as an 441 leather setup machine. You need the triple feed on wegtan leather, it is the best system for all leather. and non of the old heavy cylinder beds have that.

Tor

[Constabulary]

I mean these little Morettis: http://www.ocelmoretti.com/ocel/en/node/13

It has a system of small metal tongues an they work as a kind of resistor just like a potentiometer or so.

They are a little bit like the servos and they just run when when you press the pedal. No clue how these are called in English but we call them "Anlassermotor". Its about the same system as the used in domestic machiens where the resistor is in the foot pedal... Sorry can´t explain it technically correct.

Anyway - I just like this system. The oldest motor of this kind (not a Moretti) I worked on was from a 1944 Singer machine which belonged to a friend. I just had to change the brushes and cleaned it a little bit and at the 1st try it worked perfect. No noise when not running and very little noise while operating. I will look if I can find some pictures of it.

As I said before I just have another Singer 96 in my garage with a similar motor made by WEG and it also runs bery smooth. Well - I just like them but they do not have much power.

[cdthayer]

Constabulary:
“@ CD
Why such a large pulley? Is it really necessary?”

It’s just what I’ve found. Larger than needed, but should work alright.

CD in Oklahoma

[Trox]

I see what you mean. They sell them for the shoe repair machine, like cl. 30 and 29th. However, they are 12 and 24 volts only. Not much power in them either. And it's the same kind of motors they use for car starters, without the solenoid parts that is. Italians make lots of nice stuff for the leather industry, to bad they do not translate their websites in to English.

Tor

[Constabulary]

No, they are 230V. I have seen them from about 90Watts up to 250Watts or so. But now I see they even make them with 300Watts meanwhile.