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Sewing machine stitches slanted-CB4500
Wizcrafts replied to Crest's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
Please look at the package that the needle came from and let us know the designation on the needle. For instance, a System 794 or 7x4 in Schmetz S Point, or a 4-sided Diamond, or 3-sided Tri point, or an LR or LL twisted wedge point. The first 3 give a straight stitch line, but with a different visual front to back length on top. The last two are made with a left or right twist on the tip of the needle. While the needles can lay the thread differently based on their geometry, the only ones that might try to push the leather sideways are the LL and LR slanted wedges. Personally, I avoid slanted needles. My preferred needles either have a diamond or tri point, or an S point, which is an inline slicing wedge. If you sew a stitch line with each of these two types, using the same stitch length and tensions, The S point stitches will appear closer together and submerged, compared to the diamond shape needles. Then, there's always System 7x3 round point needles that poke a round hole and are made to sew fabric and synthetics, and create a straight stitch line with good visual appearance between the ends of the stitches. Now that the needle geometry has been discussed, there is something mechanical that could cause the strip to move sideways as your sew. That is a misaligned or loose needle bar and inside foot mounting frame. Normally, this frame is installed with a minimum of sideways clearance to keep it sewing straight. If some impact knocks the frame alignment out, it may sew off the center line. Look to see if your machine has an L shaped bracket screwed on at the bottom of the moving frame that contains the needle and inside foot bars. If present, make sure it hasn't loosened or moved to the left and giving too much clearance to the moving frame, which might be called the "rock frame," or such. -
You will be stressing out the 563, which was built in the 1980s. It wasn't made to sew veg-tan. I had one around 1988 through 90 and found that it struggled to sew pancake holsters made of two pieces of 8 ounce veg-tan leather. If your projects will be in this thickness range, you're better off with a 441 clone, like a Cowboy cb4500. I have one and it will sew anything I shove under the feet, using the heaviest thread sizes, like 277, 346, or 415. It will also sew 10 ounce belts and straps, all day long, using #138 or 207 bonded thread. The bobbins are huge and cylindrical and hold enough #138 or #207 thread to sew several days worth of belts. The Cowboy can also handle Nomex thread. All of the take-up and tensioning parts are extra beefy and made of hard and polished steel. Nomex lists for about $200/pound. But, I've been able to find it on eBay for much more affordable prices.
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Many of us, including me, use this type of "brushed" servo motor: https://www.tolindsewmach.com/motors.html. Unlike the one you linked to and own, which starts at 200 rpm, this motor starts turning over smoothly from zero rpm when you move the foot pedal down. There is no jerky start, nor any complicated electronics panels to replace. The only parts that experience wear are the two carbon brushes, two of which which come extra with the motor. I've yet to go through the original brushes in a motor I installed around 2014.
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Way back in the late 1980s, I had a job setting up a sewing operation that required applying edge binding to the items being sewn. I started out with an over-the-counter folder and some bias tape in 3 foot lengths from a store. The results were a disaster! I called my industrial sewing machines dealer and he recommended that I contact a guy who custom built folders and other sewing machine attachments.I got together with that fellow, showing him a sample of the material I was working with. He designed and built a double folder attachment that fitted onto or across the bed of the Juki LU-563 that I was going to use. The folder was made to double fold bias tape that was sold on huge rolls. It was 1.25 inches wide and I believe was polyester material. The roll sat on top of a platter that was mounted onto the right-rear end of the table. The platter rotated freely under adjustable spring tension. I set it to prevent the roll from free-wheeling when I sewed fast. This setup worked flawlessly. The edges were about 5/16 inch down from the top and were sewn a little over 1/16 inch above their bottom folded edge. The material being covered measured about 1/16 inch thick along the edges. It was an orange honeycomb material that I made into safety vests worn by road workers when they were on the job on highways and byways. I also 2" wide sewed yellow Reflexite strips across the front and back, plus sewed a patch on the back identifying who they worked for. This eventually morphed into reflective vests for transit works and Police officers. The bottom line here is that if you need to sew edge binding onto goods for sale, go the extra mile and have one made or modified to work with your preferred edge tape and sewing machine. A fully matched set of parts will work more reliably than miscellaneous parts from hither and thence, made by sum yung gui hung lo.
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To use leather as edge binding, it should be as slippery as possible so it flows through the binder attachment. Glazed pigskin lining leather that Tandy Leather sells in the US and Canada comes to mind. It is very thin, usually under 2 ounces thickness, strong (I use it for wallet interiors and holster linings), and slippery on both sides. It would probably work well in a double-fold binder. Sometimes, getting leather to work in a folder attachment just doesn't work out as you hoped for. Here's a Plan B for you. I have a buddy nearby who makes high-end holsters, rifle slings, guitar straps and tooled belts. He manually installs thin lambskin edge binding on many of his projects by laying it flat on the outside, grain side against the outside edge of the project (grain to grain). He uses 1/4 inch wide double-sided leather tape to hold the lining to the project, along the very top. He bends and folds the lamb ski to follow the contours of the project, then sews it on just below the bottom of the double-sided basting tape. This ensures that the needle just misses the 1/4 inch sticky tape. After he has sewn the edge strip onto the project's from side, he applies another strip of tape to the visible bottom edge of the lining material, then pulls it up and over the top edge of the project. He pulls it tightly over the top and presses it down to the inside of the project. The edging on the back should hang below the stitch line done on the front side. The tape should hold it in place. Once he is satisfied with how the edging lays on both sides, he takes it back to his sewing machine and sew through the front side, just under the double-folded edge. This captures the longer piece that is folded over to the inside. He cuts the width of the edge leather so that is folds nicely and tightly on the front and hangs just far enough down on the back for the needle to capture it. A typical binding from him would have about 1/4 inch folded over on the front and 3/8 inch protruding on the back side. Sometimes, he uses precision scissors to trim the back side after it's sewn on. When the sewing is finished, the edges are double-folded on the outside and single folded on the back. The grain side is all the customer sees on either side. The above method may be unconventional, but his customers like it and haven't complained about it getting in the way, or coming apart. I believe that he uses about 2 ounce thickness lambskins as edge bindings. He doesn't need a binder at all. He uses his left toe presser foot on his Cobra Class 4 stitcher, with a #23 needle running either #138 or #207 bonded nylon thread. His machine has been modded with a narrow feed dog, with a smaller than stock hole, and matching throat plate to prevent soft leather from getting pushed down into the bottom feed parts. If you want to try using his system to apply lambskin edging, purchase quality skins that are as long as possible. Aim for about 1.5 minimum to 2 ounces maximum thickness. I buy the double-sided basting tape from Wawak.com. Other companies may carry a different brand that has a greater or lesser holding strength. Note, if you will be sewing through double-sided basting tape, use titanium coated needles with as large an eye as possible. Keep a small glass jar filled with Goof-Off nearby and use a small wool dauber to dip in into the liquid solvent. Rub the wet dauber over the needle every now and then to dissolve and remove any adhesive residue from the tape. Failure to clean the needle will result in the top thread sticking in the needle's rib and eye, leading to skipped stitches and ratted top thread.
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@toxo I went through a big fight with binder attachments before I got the one that worked for our applications. It was custom built for the job and the edge binding we picked. The results was a perfectly placed double-folded edge bind on both sides. If you can't find someone to build you a binder, choose the width based on the material you will be running through it. Decide if you want a single or double folded edge. Most binding material is either cloth or synthetic bias tape. If you want to use vinyl, consult Sailrite company in the USA. They make portable and industrial sewing machines for the boat trade and offer bias tapes and folders that work properly. They can probably set you up with attachments, platters and tapes that work.
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Evidently, that particular machine appears to be industrial. That is unusual for the Viking brand. The only manual I found is linked to in my earlier comments. There is a fee to be paid to download the manual. I haven't found any other info about that machine. The original question was asking if it can sew leather. From the picture posted, it is a flat fixed foot bottom feed machine which is typical for garment sewing machines. I would be surprised if it can hold down any leather denser than soft chap or garment leather. The tensioner looks like it is only strong enough to handle thinner threads that are typically used in garment sewing. However, most of those machines can tension up to #69 (T70) bonded thread, with a #18 (110) needle. This would at least allow you to sew leather garments with it. Your main problem will be climbing up onto higher layers and thick seams. You'll have to lift the foot with the knee lifter, if that's what's coming out of the bottom. A photo taken from the top and left or right will help figure out its drive system and probably capabilities. But, experimentation goes a long way.
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A #23 needle is the right size for #138 thread on the top and bottom. Look closely at the leather under the needle to see if it is lifting with the needle as it ascends. This almost always causes skipped stitches. If it is lifting, add more foot pressure. Inserting the needle backwards has the same effect. Make sure the rib side is on the left and the scarf side faces due-right. If the check spring is set wrong for the work, it can cause skipped stitches. The bottom stopper should halt the downward motion of the check spring as or just after the tip of the needle enters the top of the work. The longest it should allow downward motion would be as the eye shows just under the bottom layer. The other settings are spring tension and slack adjustment, via a set screw inside a curved slot. Try changing the position of that screw.
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Make sure you hold back the starting threads, or at least the top thread, for about three stitches. Ensure that the needle isn't too small. Move up a size or two to see if that helps bring the top thread up into the leather. Choose the correct size needle for the thread combination. Do standard troubleshooting stuff. Start by checking the hook to needle timing. Adjust the hook or needle bar height if it has been thrown out by the impact of sewing rubber. Remove the throat plate and clean off any residue on the bottom of it. Also, check the feed dog and clean it if necessary. Re-time the machine. Change the needle to a leather point needle. Make sure you've threaded it correctly and that the top thread stays inside the tension disks and doesn't lift up as you sew. Center the check spring if it was turned to one end or the other end. Finally, make sure that there is a modicum of tension on the bobbin thread; not too much or too little.
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You didn't offend anybody I know. I often learn about people being dead after I wish them happy birthday on the book of faces!
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I own a Cowboy cb4500, which is a Juki 441 clone. It easily sews over 24mm thick stacks of whatever you have under the feet. It is a heavy duty sewing machine with two feet: inside alternating and outside presser feet. I would not refer to them as meant for delicate materials! The bottom appearance will vary with the presence or absence of the feed dog and its size. The stock feed dog is very wide and has a large oval hole in it. Soft stuff will be pushed down into that hole and may look dab compared to the top layer. To get around this problem, a couple of enterprising people have come up with narrower feed dogs that have smaller needle holes. I use one of these all the time. One maker is in Australia and the other is in the USA. They sell the narrow feed dog with a matching throat plate that is just wide enough to let the feed dog move freely. If you buy a 441 clone, then add the aftermarket narrow feed dog and throat plate, you will still be able to sew with #277 bonded thread, using a #200 (25) needle. The geometry of the needle matters too. you could experiment with different leather point shapes, and even a round point. Or, you might find somebody who owns such a machine in Hungary and send them some sample stacks of leather and foam to sew for you. Ask them to sew a separate line of thread with different needle point shapes. If they lack a particular shape that is available, maybe buy them a pack of 10 of those needles. The main needle shapes I've used in my 441 clone are Schmetz "S" point (inline wedge), tri-point (3 sided), diamond point (4-sided), and round point. I believe that some companies make traditional tilted wedge points, called LL or LR. They produce slanted stitches. I just don't have any of those.
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I refurbished one of those Model 127s in 2019 and I got it to sew with #92 bonded nylon thread using a #19 or 20 leather point needle, into a 10-12 ounce piece of bridle leather, at 5 to the inch! I sold the machine for $200 to the first person who asked about it. Here is a YouTube video showing the author cleaning her Singer Model 99. The details should be the same for your machine, except for the different shuttle type.
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For now, oil everything that moves and keep a rag onder the foot until sewing time. Twist every adjuster to get them past any high spots. You can even back off the pressure spring to make it easier to turm the balance wheel to break it in. Also, if there's a foot rotation lockscrew on the front of the head housing, back it off until it's needed. Oh, if the bobbin winder wheel is engaged, disengage it by rotating the eccentric screw on its housing. That adds some stiffness to the mechanism when it's on.
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135x16 apparently the same as 135x17 TRI
Wizcrafts replied to AlZilla's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
Labeling a leather point of any shape with a garment point designation is misleading. Leather cutting points tend to slice the fibers in cloth, webbing and serged patch borders. However, if any leather point has a snowball's chance in Hell of sewing cloth without destroying it, it is a diamond point needle. The shape is closer to round than the usual sideways slicing edge we have in leather points. I haven't tried sewing patches on with a diamond point, and don't recommend it without testing it first on a disposable patch with the same type of edging. I do use diamond/tri point needles on occasions when I want to sew close stitches that lay on top of leather projects, from end to end, versus S points that give a submerged appearance on the ends.