lranger

I have a new machine, and I am new to using sewing machines, although I have used home sewing machines some in the past. I've had this machine about a month now, and I still can not get it to sew consistently without problems. My question is, "Is it normal, with an industrial walking foot machine, to have to spend all day fooling with it to get it to sew without skipping stitches or raveling the thread? Then, say I manage to get it to sew reasonably well, then I have to work all day on it again, if I just change the color of the thread (different brand), or use a different piece of leather even though it's the same thickness? I just can't believe this is normal, or that every person in the world who sews on a machine all day long has to go to this much trouble and aggravation. Maybe I'm wrong. Keith

Vikefan,,,,,, full instructions on how to make them are right above your post. Any additional questions,,,, just ask. A lot of people may think moccasins are easy to make. Some are,, sort of, but really nice ones that look good are not easy. Keith

Hello ramrod...... You've caught me a little un-prepaired because I really didn't think anyone would be interested in these mocs. I took pictures as I was making the mocs with my 35 mm camera and I haven't gotten the film printed yet. But, I just got a new phone so I've taken some shots of the patterns to show you. I will have to try to explain the process and give you some tips. I just made the patterns on the fly. You start by putting your foot down on a piece of paper and tracing around it. Keep the pen straight up rather than slanted. I modify this tracing to suit me before I cut it out. You don't need any details of the toes and basically I try to shape the toe to look like a regular shoe. (Keep in mind that you need extra room for the wool.)Cut it out when it's like you want it and use it to make the wood mold. Be sure to leave enough gap for the leather to fit in when you push it down in the mold. (I'm kind of assuming you already know how to do some of this stuff. Just ask me if anything is unclear.) When the mold is made, case the leather and press it. I trimmed the leather even with the top of the wood. (Flip the mold over to do the other foot.) When the soles are dry, cut a heavier piece of leather (12-14oz.) using your foot pattern, round the bottom edges, and glue them into the bottom. I used rubber cement but you could use contact cement. You now have two thicknesses of leather in the soles. Use your pattern to cut out a L and R from the wool shearling and glue them in, leather side down of course. The soles are done. I used brown paper to start with on the upper pattern making. I measured all the way around the sole to get the length I needed. I knew I wanted the sides to come up just above my ankle bone, so I roughly drew it up, cut it out, put a foot down on the sole, and started fitting the paper around my foot. You just keep modifying and changing it until you have it like you want it. (I've made more than a few pairs of mocs so I kind of know what I'm doing at this point.) Use a pair of shoes for a guide. The sides of my mocs are 4" high, on the pattern. And mine are 3/4" high around the toe. That is too short and probably should be at least 1 1/4" high because of the wool. Be sure to add about an inch extra on each side where it comes together at the heel. When you start sewing the upper to the sole, start in the center of the toe area and sew to the heel. Then do the other side. Now trim the heel part to fit and sew up the heel. I started to use some leather other than elk for the uppers but I'm only going to wear mine in the house so I didn't. I would use something a little more flexable than vegtan if it were me, about 8 oz. or a little less. When your upper pattern is made, cut out an outer piece of leather, and the inner wool piece, and glue them together. Same for the other foot. When you get ready to sew,,, I use a stitching wheel tool to mark the leather which gives about 5 spi. BUT, when you sew around a curve, like the toe area and the heel, the stitch spacing on the outer circumference has to be slightly farther apart than on the inside of the curve. I do this on the fly, by instinct and experience of doing it. Along the sides of the shoe, where it is straight, the stitch spacing will be the same. Start sewing in the center of the toe area. When you have that all sewn, you can put your foot down in it, straighten it all out as best you can, put some paper over your toes and make the vamp piece. (What I do is make poster board patterns once I have the paper ones right.) I punch all the stitching holes before I start sewing, I use an awl, (not a diamond shape), and I push it through on a 45 degree angle. The stitching line is about 1/8 inch from the edge. Regular saddle stitch. I use the awl while stitching to open up and locate the holes, which are already punched. I use #2 blunt needles and #346 polyester thread, waxed with beeswax. This will be pretty hard stitching unless you have done it a lot before. Just take your time and keep thinking "it may be slow, but if I stay at it, someday I will get through." That's basically it. If you have any questions, just ask. I've been wearing my mocs all day today. They really are nice made this way. Thank you Monica. All the mocs I've made before were regular plains style with a rawhide sole. These are made entirely different, plus the wool for warmth. They feel so good on my feet.

Yes,,,, the wool is pretty thick right now. Actually, I realized that the wool was just too thick after I sewed the first one together, so I trimmed some of the wool off. It was easier to do on the pieces that weren't sewn together yet. So, the second one was better. The wool will pack down, though, as they're worn.

Finally finished the mocs I've been working on for this winter. My old ones are falling off my feet so.......... I've made plains style mocassins before but this is my first like this. Basically, these are made like mukluks, and an upper piece that fits around the lower leg can easily be laced on above these mocs. This is also the first time I wet molded the soles, too. I made a wood mold and formed the bottom of the sole using 8 oz. vegtan. Then, I glued in a piece of 14 oz. skirting leather, then glued wool shearling into the sole. The uppers are elk on the outside with shearling glued to the inside. Used rubber cement on all that. Then, layed out the stitching holes and started stitching. It's fairly hard to stitch these. I can provide more pics that show what the pieces look like before they're sewn together if anyone's interested in making mocs like this. They feel great on my feet, and they're soooooo warm. Keith

I found out that Palladium is a metal in the same family of Platinum. Hermes bags come with hardware plated in either gold, palladium, and another which I don't recall. Anyway, apparently their hardware is solid brass and plated with one of these precious metals. No wonder they cost so much. I still haven't found any supplier where a person could buy it, not that I could afford it anyway. I think I'm going to have to give up on finding better hardware. I've wasted way too much time on the search already.

Thanks for your replys and suggestions. I'm still looking at them all. I'm making a list of all my inventory so I can computerize it and I had to throw some brand new pieces out because it was corroding. I sure would hate to make a nice leather bag and have the hardware looking like crap in a year. I look for good quality stainless steel if I can find it. Also, as far as I know, if I want it shiny and it isn't SS, then I guess nickel plated brass is it. I don't want chromed steel because it'll rust. I don't like solid brass because it seems to always look like horse tack hardware. What is the stuff made out of when it's listed as Gold? As compared to SB(solid brass), SS(stainless steel), NP(nickel plated). Again, it seems that all the manufacturers are in China, Hong Kong, or Taiwan, so no matter who you buy it from it's coming from one of those places originally. OK, I know somebody is going to say there are some USA manufacturers, but what I have found is they aren't manufacturing a full line of hardware, mostly just a specialized selection of it. I guess my question should be, "Where do the top designer bag makers get their hardware?" Do they have their own factory and make their own? Keith

No,,,,, not at all. It looks like a pretty nice saddle in the pics. I just don't understand why you'd want to take a saddle in nice condition and make it into poor condition. So, I would think you'd be money ahead to sell it and buy a cheap, old, worn saddle, which is what you said you wanted to do to this one. Of course it's your saddle. You can do whatever you want to do with it. No offense meant. I just don't understand. Never mind.

I, like Monica, have also noticed that the leather becomes really dry, hard, and stiff after I use Fiebing dye. I actually have never liked any veg tanned leather I've used from Tandy, though. It doesn't color up as nicely, or get supple after I oil it with 100% neatsfoot oil. It always comes up looking darker/dirtier than the skirting leather I use for saddles. I do use Tandy's veg tan, because I can buy smaller pieces (shoulders), and I can buy lighter weights because they split it. Maybe that's why it colors up differently. I don't make whole projects from it, I just use small pieces here and there when I need something thinner. I don't know,,, it's just my feeling about it. I could be doing it all wrong, but I've always tried to put the oils back in vegtan leather by oiling it very well with Neatsfoot oil. I do like to use tankote, too, after I've done everything else I'm going to do to it. Keith

Hello Everyone, I'm gearing up to start out in a new direction. Most all my work in the past has been related to either horse gear or rendezvous gear. I've been doing that for more than 15 years so I pretty much have my suppliers that I like. Now though, I want to start making purses and handbags. I've been struggling for a couple of weeks trying to find really good quality hardware and it seems that everyone pretty much has the same stuff. I'm experienced with Tandy's hardware and a lot of it isn't very good, to me, and it seems that all the other suppliers pretty much carry the same kind of stuff. I have finally signed up with Ohio Travel Bag and I'm making up an order. I'm just afraid I'm not going to like the quality. I'm trying to order a pretty good inventory so I'll have what I need once I start working. Anyone have any suggestions that could help me out before I order? Keith

I've done a lot of work with buckskin and elkskins, primarily in the fur trade/mountainman realm. I've made buckskin coats, trousers, na type shirts, various types of bags, and moccasins. As far as I know, mountainman rendezvous and north american indian replica work is about all it is used for. My guess is that buckskin isn't "sophisticated" enough for leather lovers. (Not high quality.) It is very soft and pliable, and feels great to wear. There is no shortage if you know where to look for it. There is commercially tanned and brain tanned, which is the way the indians did it, and is considered to be better and more authentic, but very expensive. It is rather stretchy, so you do have to take care about that. Not a real problem as far as I'm concerned. I've mostly bought my buckskin from Spotted Pony Traders, in Florida. Keith

I made the stamp holders myself. There are 40 tools in each one, plus I have one that holds 12 that I use on the bench. The large table will hold a whole side of leather, but I actually cut out saddle pieces on the floor because the skirting leather is so heavy. I do all my design, layout, pattern making, cutting of smaller pieces, most everything right on that table. I use the stitching horse for hand stitching most things, but sometimes I just hold the work in my lap to sew, like I'm doing right now. I'm making a pair of sherling wool lined moccasins and I'm stitching the uppers to the soles right now. I am VERY particular about keeping the shop neat and clean. I can't stand clutter. Have fun with your work. Keith

My shop is the spare bedroom in my house.

The machine is now sewing 2 oz. leather with a #18 needle and #69 thread, something it would not do ever since I got it. Thanks again to Wizcrafts, and everyone else who tried to help. Keith

Mr. Wizcrafts, I think, maybe, you have solved the problem. Actually, if I hadn't asked about why I couldn't pull the work out from under the foot you never would have told me what you did in your last post. So, because of what you said, I backed way off on the upper tension nut, and, I backed off the bobbin tension screw just one half turn, to where I really couldn't feel any drag on the thread when I pulled on it. I could tell there was a big difference immediately upon starting to sew. Now, the stitching showed that the upper tension was too tight, something I hadn't seen before, and the stitches on the bottom looked good. I backed off the upper tension some more and the stitching got good on both sides, like it should be. Even the backstitch at the end is much better. Now for a little rant. It seems to me that these sewing machine people think you should know all this stuff, even though you tell them you've never used a sewing machine. To me, I have NO experience with a sewing machine, I don't know anything about how much adjustment should be normal or even is possible, and I don't know what is normal and what isn't normal. I felt like things weren't acting right, but I didn't know why, until, in this case you said what you did. Anyway, I think, and I hope that this problem is solved. I know for sure that the machine is sewing entirely different from before. Thank you very, very much. Keith

Wizcrafts, The upper thread is definitely in the tension discs and I am holding the threads for the first few stitches. There is plenty of tension. I have watched people sew on other walking foot machines and they can just pull the work out from under the foot when they stop stitching. I have to physically pull some slack in the thread in order to pull the work out from under the foot after stitching because the tension is so tight. Is that normal? Even with that much upper tension it isn't pulling the loop up inside the leather underneath. I keep trying more tension but how much is too much. To me, if I increased the tension enough it would eventually make the upper thread lay on top of the leather. I checked the movement of the feet and dogs like you said. Turning by hand in the normal direction, when the tip of the needle is entering the feed dog hole the large foot and the feed dogs are moving up, the center foot is down. I continue turning, the needle goes all the way down and is coming back up. All feet are down when the tip of the needle is coming up thru the hole. Is that right or wrong? Thank you to everyone who has replied.

I'll try to give you as much information as I can...... I want to start making nice bags and purses out of 2-4 oz. leather. I tried sewing it on my Pfaff 360 machine with a #18 leather needle. It will sew it just about as well as the 2700 is, but still has the problem on backstitching at the end of the stitch,,, and at the beginnings. I figured a real "professional" machine should be able to handle the job so I ordered the Techsew 2700, which is for light to medium weight leather. Techsew says the machine can only use 135x17 needles #18 to 24. So,,,, tell me if I'm wrong, the 2700 should sew two layers of 2 oz. leather, with a #18 needle and #69 bonded nylon thread all day long like it was butter, I assume I can't go down to a #16 needle either. It would sew two, and even four layers of vinyl, which they tested, and with a #21 needle when I received the machine. I immediately put some 2 oz. leather in it and it created a huge birdsnest in the bobbin and locked up the machine. It took me all day to get that fixed. The machine is sewing 2 oz. leather, 4 oz. split, elkskin, chap leather, and 2 layers of 8 oz. vegtan with the #21 needle and #69 thread, which the thread is really too small for that, and the stitching is OK, and I might could live with the backstitch at the beginning of a stitch, but I just can't live with the backstitch at the end of the stitch. It is ugly, leaves loops sticking up, and easily unravels. It will NOT sew anything with a needle in it smaller than the #21 without raveling the thread, and adjusting upper thread tension doesn't help. (Well, if I back the tension off far enough that it doesn't ravel the thread, then it leaves the bobbin thread lieing on the surface of the leather.) I've tried about everything I know to try. Where I am now is; I either have to just live with it, which I can't, or I have a very expensive boat anchor sitting in my shop. Sorry,,,,,, I've had a week of frustration to deal with.

Hello everyone, About a week ago I received a new Techsew 2700 and I still can't sew anything on it that's acceptable. I bought the machine primarily for sewing 2-4 oz. leather bags/purses, but it will not sew two layers of 2 oz. leather with a #18 or even a #20 needle and #69 bonded nylon thread. It just ravels the needle thread,,, bad. It will sew pretty decently with a #21 needle and the #69 thread, but the holes are too big, or at least I think they're too big for the #69 thread. Also, the backstitches at the beginning and end don't look good enough to me for a finished product, and it isn't really locking the stitch because I can easily pull it out. Is it just me, and am I just expecting too much out of this machine? Yes, it will sew leather,,, technically, but not well enough for anything I'd want anyone to see. It sews chap leather better, and I have sewn two layers of 8 oz. vegtan on small practice pieces, but the backstitches aren't acceptable and I wouldn't even try to do a realjob on it. I don't quite know what to do at this point. I'm very frustrated. Machines are no fun at all. Any help would be very appreciated. Keith

Why don't you just sell, or give it away and go buy an old, beatup, ugly saddle?

I assume you're talking about artificial sinew. You just burn the end with a Bic lighter and it will melt into a knot. You have to be quick to blow it out so it doesn't burn too far. Keith

I punch all the holes before stitching and I use two different sized awls. One is very short and a little larger in diameter than the other one, which is also longer. Reason for the two different sizes is the thickness and type of leather. (smaller holes for thinner leather) On vegtan, I always use a stitching groove, and most of the time I even put a groove on the backside, too. I just like the way it looks better and it protects the thread. Putting a groove on the backside is a little tricky to get your hand punched holes to hit the groove. You have to have a very even edge and use a grooving tool that slides along the edge of the leather. That makes the groove the same distance from the edge on both sides. When you're punching the holes you have to be real careful not to lean your awl any. Once I have the stitching groove done, I punch the first hole, then run my stitching wheel around the groove to mark the holes, then go around it with the awl to put the holes in. Sometimes I punch the holes with the parts separate, and sometimes I'll put the two pieces together and punch the holes thru all the layers at once. Depends on what it is. If I'm punching thru several layers I generally have it glued together already. I use rubber cement on leather that will stretch, like buckskin, in small amounts. On smaller projects, I do all this on the bench, by hand. On larger pieces, like saddle parts, I chuck up an awl point in a tabletop drillpress and punch the holes. You'd kill your hand if you didn't. I DON'T DRILL THE HOLES with a bit. Like Monica said, I also do a fair amount of hole counting, particularly when sewing buckskin clothing. Some projects require a lot of counting. Others don't. I don't like the pricking irons. I have tried a diamond shaped awl in the drillpress on saddle skirts, but I don't use it any more because I feel the holes are too long/big. It's all mostly a matter of personnal preference. I think everyone should do it the way they are most comfortable, and how they like it. This is how I do it. Keith

BondoBob---- I live and work on a small ranch property and the owners are only here a few months of the year. I have to have something to keep me from going crazy during the winter because I hardly see anyone for 8 months or so. Leatherwork is perfect. Hey Monica,,, I really do admire your work. I've been looking at your website. You can have a horse, they sell them everywhere, and you'd be soooooo happy. Horses are great.

Thanks for the kind words everyone. oltoot----- I've never had the rattling problem with the breast collar dees. I have three saddles, and I've installed them for other people, with no rattles. The reasons I put them in that exact location are; I don't like them up under the concho like a lot of people do for several reasons. It puts too much stuff under the concho and keeper, I don't think that one screw is strong enough for the breast collar, and, to me, you have to use a different style/type breast collar when the dee is that high up. Plus, I make my own breast collars, too, and the ones I like curve up and then back where it comes off the center ring, making it follow the line of his shoulder as you mentioned. I actually measure that on the horse so that dee is exactly in the right place. I agree with you on the ground seat. I used a sheetmetal strainer plate on both of these new saddles. I worked a solid week skiving on the first one and wasn't happy with it. I tried really hard to get the second one better, but you can still see the edges of the strainer plate. I think I'm going to change to an all leather ground seat, but I'm worried about them collapsing over time. On the cantel binding stitch line; I used Harry Adams Saddlemaker's Shop Manual to learn how to build saddles, and the way it is in the picture is exactly the way he says to do it. I haven't checked Stohlman's saddlemaking books to see how he says to do it. I will keep what you said under advisement, though, and see if I can improve that next time. By the way, all my work is hand stitched as I haven't had a sewing machine,,, until now. I got a TechSew 2700 in today, but I didn't buy it for my saddle work. Basically, it's for most everything else. I'm just a beginner on saddles. It really was scarry to lay out a lot of money for the materials and not know if I was going to have anything good at the end. It also takes me a long time to make the first cut on a side of skirting leather. Thanks for your advice.

Hello All, This is my second saddle,, built last winter. It's built on a custom made Wade tree by Ben Swanke in Billings. Keith

Hello All, I've been enjoying this site for a couple years but I'm not much for posting. I finally decided maybe I'd try it. I've been doing a little leather work for quite a few years. Mostly horse tack and buckskins. Two years ago I finally decided to try building a saddle. I've built two now,, for myself. They are custom made to fit my two horses and me. I suppose I could make about anything I wanted to out of leather, but mostly I make bags, horse tack, etc. I've always done hand stitching only, but I just bought a TechSew 2700. It hasn't gotten here yet. I am going to try to attach some pics of my work. I don't have a very good device for taking pictures, so these won't be very good. They're just all I have. Keith