Tosch

There has been something going around my mind for some time ….. I remember a pre-crash remark from Bruce J that he hardly sees any up-hill built (Quarter) horses anymore, but a lot of horses that are level built or even down-hill. I observe the same over here in the QH type of horses. I understand from he „rigging type..." topic that rigging position does not effect where the saddle sits on a horse's back, provided the tree fits the back. (Where a specific rigging position has to be positioned, see "point of reference on a tree"). I also understand that the full rigging position might not be the best choice as it applies most of the downward pull at the front while a rigging set back a bit "spreads the pull over the whole tree, not just the front of it". I would think that for a riding horse that has to carry a saddle it would be best if he were built up-hill with well defined withers. Let us assume we have another horse with the same back conformation, but he is built down-hill. And we have a saddle that fits the identical back conformation of both horses. Now I wonder: Regardless of the rigging position, would not the down-hill built horse have to carry more "weight" on his front end because of his built? Would not a saddle rigged let us say ¾ have the tendency to move forward – regardless that the bar configuration nicely fits the back shape itself, but just because the horse is built down-hill? Wouldn't that even increase the effect that the down-hill horse already has to carry more "weight" on his front end because of his built? Besides not breeding/riding down-hill built horses can the trees somehow be altered to lower the level of discomfort caused by their built? Do you do some modifications to the saddle tree / the saddle when you know it will be used on a down-hill built horse? Tosch

In her 2003 booklet Verlane mentions as reference points "the center of the fork and the point of cantle. ....A full rig (..) is directly under the center of the fork. A 7/8 rig is seven eights of the distance from the point of cantle to the center of the fork. Same for 3/4 and 5/8 rigs. A center fire rig is almost directly in the center of the saddle...." So I would think depending on the horn type and placement there might be a difference in using the center of the fork as reference point or the center of the base of the horn as used bei Keith and others. Also I noticed she would have placed a center fire rig not directly in the center (halfways between her reference points), just almost. Tosch

From what I have gathered: -"The roll, along the top of the cantle, provides a softer surface (When someone lands on it "accidentially") and a finger hold when lifting the saddle, but is generally regarded as a mainly ornamental feature." - "To hold the stuff behind the cantle behind the cantle" The first quote without the (...) is from "Saddlemaking in Wyoming" pg 34. It is also mentioned there " The roll cantle was apparently orginated in Frank Meana's shop in Cheyenne; at least, it appeared first in Meana's 1874 catalog. The rolls were fairly common in the 1870 and 1880s, but went out of fashion in the 1890s. In the mid-1930s the made a reappearance under the name Cheyenne roll. The Cheyenne roll is almost universal on modern saddles." I received the book mentioned as a gift from my penpal Verlane when I stopped by for a visit in June last year. Unfortunately there will be no more visits....but glad to have known her. Tosch

Dave, Google for "Timberline saddle tree comany"and you will the phone number and address (Vernal,UT). They were very nice and friendly when I visited and looked around for more then 2 hours on my last year's vacation. At leatherworkers.net click on "members" , type in "Rod and Denise N" , view their profile and click on their url. You'll find their contact info and lots (!) of very interesting info. Tosch

I am shocked. I had been in email contact with Verlane for a number of years before I got to meet her in person this June at her shop/home. I have known her to be straight forward, very friendly, very helpful...She was not feeling well when I met her but she sounded optimistic ... No wonder she didn't answer my latest email. If you recieve more details , please, let me know. Also,please, in case you know how to reach her family. I am shocked. Tosch

Well, my response is a little late... I believe along with other great info and explanations on the groundseat the "stirrup leather slot" question along with clear pictures has been addressed here . Tosch