RyanCope

QUALITY...."There is hardly anything in the world that some man can not make a little worse , and sell a little cheaper. And the people who consider price only are this man's lawfull prey." A quotation by John Ruskin This sign hangs in my shop, and is the FIRST thing people see when they enter my shop. It was passed on to me by my teacher when I started out on my own. He drilled into me not to bother with people who are cheap. If you do, your saddlemaking career will suffer because of it. Cheap people make lousy customers ( I'm generalizing ), and are not loyal. I had a woman yesterday who wanted 5 dice cups for Christmas, basket stamped with brands tooled on them. I quoted her $75 a peice, and she about hit the roof. Which was fine because I quoted her too cheap, and I was booked for Christmas in September anyway. Point being, I didn't even blink as she walked out the door. We've all had people walk in that are cheap, and/ or don't know quality. And, frankly I've met many saddlemakers that are not much different. Each individual has to decide what type of saddlemaker they want to become, as well as what type of customer they wish to cater to. Don't waist your time with people that are cheap. People who are uneducated as to what is quality can sometimes become great customers. I understand there is a big difference in perspective depending on whether your building saddles as a hobby, full time, first timer, veteran, different regions and everything in between. So, I can only speak for myself. But it seems to me that THERE IS NEVER A RIGHT WAY TO DO SOMETHING WRONG. I hope that helps. I know this is a little off subject, but I've been where you are, and I'm where I'm at now, because of the choices I made then. Good, bad, or indifferent. I am certainly no expert, and have much to learn. But I don't deal in crap. Granted ,there are exceptions to every rule, but exceptions will become habits if you are not carefull. Ryan Cope

I saw those catalogs a couple weeks back. Pretty amazing. I've heard Shoup talk quite a bit about working with Stanley. I think Shoup even employed him as tooler for a while when he went out on his own.

Just a side note. I've got a catalog that Chuck Stormes delivered to Forrest Shoup in the late 70's. The note inside the front cover was asking for help on a book that Stormes had in the works about Visalia Saddle Co. Did Stormes ever produce such a book? Maybe he was just helping Fred? Ryan Cope

Thanks Bruce. I thought you might know. I really need to come and visit with you one of these days.

While I have used multiple exotic leather wholesalers, I've yet to find a company that I am comfortable using exclusively. It seems they will usually say that they are the best and explain to me why the others are inferior. I don't know about the rest of you, but that immediately sends up the red flags. Is there a company out there that consistantly produces QUALITY hides of MULTIPLE species? Price, for me, is secondary. More specifically, I am looking for shark, stingray, and elephant. I'm not sure you can still get elephant legally, but I have seen it around. I even heard someone mention Hippo. I've yet to attend a leather show, and wondered if those of you that do have run into a company that stood above the rest. Ryan Cope

Robert, Nice carving. Is that your design? Next time you might consider this: 1. Neatsfoot/ Olive oil 2. Antique ( liberally) 3. Remove excess 4. Allow to dry 5. Neatlac The neatlac will protect the antiquing cream ( and keep it off you), and give you a more brilliant finish. Ryan Cope

I don't know how many of you have heard of Forrest Shoup, but he could use your thoughts and prayers right now. He's laying in a V.A. hospital, bed ridden, fairly depressed, and wondering how much time he has left. Forrest is one of the last of the old timers left from the Visalia era. A perfectionist of the highest order, both in his saddlemaking, as well as in his life. His career spanned more than 50 years, and his abilities inspired more than a few saddlemakers in the generation that followed him. He was my teacher, and I owe him everything. Ryan Cope Hospital address is: Forrest Shoup M.S.I.C.U.-13 (Intensive care unit room# 13) c/o V.A.M.C. 3801 Miranda Ave. Palo Alto, CA 94043

Clay, If by "rolling the edge" you are referring to the pad, I did taper the edge with my scratcher. I wouldn't normally do that. However, the person who ordered the saddle was adamant about not wanting the pad to stick up above the leather when it was new, or after it was broke in, so I did things a little different. By that I mean he didn't want to feel the squared edge of the pad on a long day. Whether or not it worked, I'm sure I'll be hearing about it after the fall works. I did use a 3/8" closed cell foam pad. As far as right or wrong goes.... I couldn't tell you. I'm sure there are plenty of you more educated on the subject than myself. Thanks for the kind words. Ryan Cope

I am very new to this forum and just wanted to post a recent saddle. Ryan Cope

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum. So, I'm a little late to the discussion. However, I have a few thoughts on the subject. First off, I was tought to drill. Very traditional, and it's worked for a long time. How ever as I grow in experience, I've come across a lot of good cowboys, that are very SPECIFIC in how they want certain things built, including strings. Some want them all drilled, others want them screwed in, and many want the front drilled only with the rawhide cut out to relieve pressure. Most of these guys rope (a lot) or show stock horses at the county fair/ Ranch Rodeo. As I have traditionally spent more time around cowboys/ buckaroos than saddlemakers (except for a couple of great saddlemakers, that I was blessed to have as mentors), I have a tendancy to comply with these requests as long as they are within reason. I figure it as an experiment. I explain to them what I think, told them what might happen when their get down rope hooks the gate, and let them decide. I can definately see both sides of the issue. Most of the guys I'm talking about aren't going to bring the saddle back for me to fix anyway. They are well versed in how to strip a saddle down and put it back together the way it was. These are the guys that ride hard a push the limits of my work. And, to be honest I've learned a lot from them. They've been my best customers, as far as my education goes. So my question to you all is this...When you talk about being a driller/ non-driller when fabricating a new saddle for someone, is that your prefence or is that your Law? Would you let an order walk away because you did/didn't want to screw the strings in? Ryan Cope

Thanks Bruce. I'll look for their number. How do you like the skiver? I've heard from a couple of people that they can be fairly tempermental. Ryan Cope

I'm beginning to look in to purchasing a band saw splitter. I'm curious if any of you have knowledge/ experience with a particular band or model, and might be willing to share it. 12" would be a minimum width for me. Ryan Cope

Bruce, I just received one of Ron's horses from UPS today. I meant to bring it up on the phone earlier but didn't. Normally I wouldn't spend the money, but for tax reasons I did. I've been using two wooden horses I got from Shoup. One he built in '49, the other he built for me when I apprenticed with him. Anyway, I often find myself needing another draw down horse. I wanted one with a barber stool base similar to one I saw in Paisley, OR at Babb's shop a long time ago. I seem to spend a lot of time running around saddles being built. So far I think I'm going to really like it. Although, I think the laser arm bracket should of been put on the back side of the horse, rather than the front. Ryan Cope

Greg, Good to see you are still doing great work. I joined this forum tonight. Thanks to Bruce Johnson. Ryan Cope