jennifer

Just thought I would post a picture of an item that I own that I would love to buy as gifts for family members if they were made of nice leather! The large mouth bass coaster design would make a great gift for my brothers, something with a simple flower would be nice for my sisters. Don't know anyone who doesn't like a quality leather piece in their home. Don't know how difficult this would be, or if anyone is already making something like this, but with all the people ruining their eyes working on computers and the baby boomers all needing reading glasses, I thought it may be an idea worth sharing. The one I own is actually a bit deeper. Jennifer

I don't know where you can find clip art, but I just grabbed a photo of a swivel knife from the internet and opened it with my corel photo program (came with my camera), and altered the photo by using the find all edges effect and the black pencil effect. If you like the results and you don't have a photo editing program that will do this let me know and I will try to help you out. Jennifer mod. edit: posts combined

At one time I ran my business using the ideology that the customer was always right and attempted to meet everyone's needs. My ideology has changed. Customers may be right or may be wrong. I have learned many things and have tried and adopted new techniques and business practices based on the unique needs of some customers - I also regularly "fire" customers that are difficult, don't want to listen to reason, expect the impossible etc. I simply let them know that I recognize that I cannot fulfill their needs and gently suggest that they find someone else to help them. When I do go out of my way to assist someone with a special need that I determine is acceptable I generally ask for payment before I incur any expense. Jennifer

Thank you Troy for the clarification. I was still curious about identification so I called both Billy Cook Harness and Saddle in Sulpher Oklahoma and Longhorn/Simco makers of the Billy Cook Saddlery saddles and got the following information: From Dick in Texas I was told that Longhorn uses only the Billy Cook Saddlery Stamp, if it says "Billy Cook Maker" it belongs to the Sulpher Oklahoma company. He didn't know if Billy Cook used that stamp before leaving Texas. He doesn't have any records of that stamp being used and they don't have rights to use the maker stamp. If you have a model number he can try to look it up. He doesn't have records prior to 81, but he does have some old catalogs and can sometimes find information on older Potts-Longhorn saddles. From Christy in Oklahoma I was told that if it says "Billy Cook Maker" it was made by Billy Cook either in Texas or Oklahoma. She also told me that Billy brought with him a practice of indicating the year the saddle was made and still uses the same methodology. If you look under the Fender the first two digits before the model number tell you what year the saddle was made. Neither company had any clue what "Made Special for Rolling" meant. Christy said it may possibly be a person's name, but "Billy won't remember". Phone numbers are: 800-251-6294 (Texas) and 800-311-7549 (Oklahoma). Jennifer

From what I have researched I believe Billy Cook was a saddlemaker in Greenville, Texas prior to 1981 when he sold his designs & the rights to use his name to Longhorn with a 10 year non-competition agreement. In 1991 he opened shop in Sulphur Oklahoma. He was apparently a good enough saddle maker to sell the rights to his name and designs. If you have a saddle that was made in Greenville Texas that is stamped "Billy Cook Saddlery Greenville Texas" it is a Longhorn or Longhorn/Simco saddle. If it is stamped "Billy Cook Maker, Greenville Texas" it should be a pre-1981 saddle made by Billy Cook. If it says Billy Cook Maker, Genuine, Sulpher Oklahoma it was made by the production shop currently owned by Billy Cook. My research was not based on actual newspaper or legal documentation, so I wouldn't guarantee this to be fact. You could call both Longhorn and the Billy Cook Sulpher Oklahoma shops to get more information. Jennifer

am starting yet another post on downhill horses. I am still very much a novice horse owner and still trying to learn, and I have a question. A woman I know who is a pretty good horsewoman asked me to download some pictures for her from her last training (her computer wasn’t cooperating). She had spent a month learning to work cows on a ranch in Texas. Looking at the pictures I noticed that almost all of the horses there looked downhill as I have interpreted the definition, including the stallion Smart Little Lena. I may not know much, but I recognized the name as one of names that is considered quite desirable on a pedigree in the qh world. These horses didn’t have high stepping trots, but they could go low to ground and twist and turn beautifully. This got me to thinking that horses may not be that different than dogs. We breed them for specific jobs. As great as Standard Poodles are at hunting fowl, if you have gophers and rats, a Jack Russell Terrier is a better choice; Dalmatians who were breed to run alongside carriages are great pets for the person training as a marathon runner, but not good stuck in the house. Each breed has its purpose and the conformation, haircoat and other breed attributes match the need. Was it coincidence that the horses that showed the best ability to work cows and bred specifically for that purpose were also downhill or is there a benefit to this physical attribute that makes them better at working cows like the poodle’s haircoat that insulates the joints from the cold water or the short legs of the dachshund that allows him to go down a hole after his prey? Jennifer

Curiosity got the best of me. Found this information on historical uses of bodark wood. When early French explorers ventured west of the Mississippi River-into what is now eastern Texas-they encountered the Osage Indians, who were known for making bows that were superior weapons for fighting and hunting. The unusual tree that the Osage used for making their bows was unknown to the French, who promptly called it bois d'arc, or "wood of the bow."Later the whites made a brilliant orange-yellow dye from the root, bark, shavings and sawdust of the tree to color their quilts, and clothes. The dye-mixed with certain mordants-can produce a green, dull shade of yellow, a tan, various gold shades, dark brown, chocolate, khaki and olive shades. The dye seems to work best on wool, but can be used to dye cotton and as a tannin in the treatment of leather. Early settlers claimed that wool dyed with bois d'arc prevented mildew on fabric. Modern-day Navaho weavers use the bois d'arc dye in coloring their hand-made rugs. excerpt from: http://www.osageorange.com/Roughing_out_T.html Jennifer

Could it be synergist tree? http://www.synergistsaddles.com/Horse-Sadd...saddle_tree.htm Jennifer

Yonatan, Darc and so many others, I have been reading every post on saddle fit and construction and the saddle industry and thank you all for the great learning experience. I may never make a saddle, but my horses will never have a poorly fitting saddle that wasn't made well placed on their backs. I still havn't quite figured out the best seat for me, but I enjoy the discussions and am learning some of the things to look for. With two young horses I have been more concerned with not screwing them up and staying on board than thinking about what feels comfortable to me. (Green on green is a good combination to get black on blue.) Thanks Again, Jennifer

I simply appreciate fine wood, and don't do cutting or carving, but I would like to know how many growth rings per inch you are getting. I also thought you might enjoy a some information from the the environmental impact study of the harvesting by Superior Timbers of mnemonic sunkwood from Lake Superior. (Logs that sunk during the logging industry heyday). According to the study there no longer exists the same quality of old growth lumber anywhere in the world that can compare to the lumber that was harvested by the U.S. and Canadian logging companies in the late 1890s to early 1930s. The lumber that is being brought up from the bottom of the lake includes red oak, white pine, maple, hemlock, basswood, yellow birches and red elms that were all seedlings when Columbus landed in America, but were clearcut almost to the point of extinction. I pulled this statement from the Superior Timbers website: Recovered from the depths of the Great Lakes Region and other waterways "Superior Timbers" are virgin old-growth timber 300 - 1200 years old. Grown under a thick canopy of evergreen trees and competing for limited nutrients and sunlight in overgrown forests, virgin hardwood species matured very slowly, accumulating up to 40 to 50 rings per inch. Today's rapidly maturing trees average only 5 to 10 rings per inch. These environmental factors resulted in the development of a finely grained, highly figured hardwood of exceptional quality and beauty. As of today our highest ring count has been 77 rings per inch. Jennifer

Glad to know you read my comments. You are probably correct that using modern techniques we have improved the strengh of saddle trees, but the wood itself is not as strong as the wood from years ago when we had old trees that had grown in more dense forests. Jennifer

I have spent the better part of this evening reading the various posts on strength of trees, and the use of various synthetic products in the production of trees. I have a couple of comments: First, if we had a history of good rawhide covered wood trees breaking I would say that investigation into the weaknesses would be warranted, but from what I have seen, this does not seem to be a problem. I'm not sure that there is any better test than the thousands of saddles that have lasted 30+ years. The twin towers were engineered to withstand the stress of a plane crashing into them, they were not built to withstand the heat of the fires that ensued after the crash. Second, I agree that synthetic materials are often cheaper and more efficient to produce but what are the long term costs. What are the effects of production on the health of the planet? Does it preserve or reduce ecosystem integrity? What are its effects on the land? What are its effects on wildlife? How much and what kind of waste does it generate? Then again the trees we build from wood today are not as strong as those built 100 years ago. Our forests are less dense and the increased light creates faster growth and less dense wood, so we may need to look to synthetics to strengthen the wood that our insatiable needs have weakened. Although I am a data analyst and IT tech, I come from an Amish community and often question if are we advancing or retarding society through technology. I can say that most of my amish friends have homes and 10+ acres of land by the time they are 20, the wives stay home with their children and the community takes care of each other. Then again I couldn't be communicating with you if I didn't have electricity and my computer. I think I'll stick to the rawhide wrapped wood tree, but take my plastic bottle of water along on the trail. Jennifer

came up with an e-mail address for someone who has new Teddy Wicks saddles for sale: tricia@showringphotos.com http://www.showringphotos.com/tack.htm She may be able to tell you more about the maker or get you in touch with them. Jennifer

I’m down in the suburbs of San Diego County, and like Washroad, my house was in the $600,000 range two years ago, but I don’t even want to see what it is now. I have an older 1500 sq foot home and just saw a brand new 3000 sf model home fully furnished sell for $400,000.00. When I bought my home I was near a dairy and had lots of open space around our neighborhood. They overbuilt when prices went up and some of the new neighborhoods have 50% in foreclosure. As far as income and work supply, things are tough. My husband has been looking for work for the past 18 months and with 35 years of experience in grocery sales can’t get more than part-time $15.00 an hr temp work. Most of the people who work regular admin type jobs are earning $10-$12 an hour. At the humane society work starts at about $8.00 an hour and the Director of Animal Control earns under $40,000/year. I work a full time job as a data analyst and run a small business in order to make ends meet. When I hear the politicians say we may be heading into a recession I wonder what they are looking at. I can tell you this, prior to Monday I was working for the county access and crisis line and along with foreclosures, suicide calls are way up, gas prices are at $4.00 a gallon, our board for the horses just went up another $60.00 a month and Bermuda is at $14.00 a bail. I’d say there is not a lot of discretionary spending left in many peoples budget. Jennifer quote name='Washroad' date='May 15 2008, 01:59 PM' post='47248'] The "average" person doesn't buy a house here. They can't. You need an income of more than $80,000 to buy a condo here (Orange County)(only 30% of the population can afford to buy here)(many commute from the "Inland Empire" as it's more affordable than here but they have to commute close to 40 miles)(you should see the rush hour traffic here), more for a house. The houses that have sold in my neighborhood had 2 families buying them so they could qualify. You most likely pay more in property taxes than we do (we have Prop 13 that limits our property taxes to a 2% increase a year). I know friends in Texas pay a lot more property tax but they have no income tax like we do. Govmint will get ya one way or another. Income higher? I don't really know. Wildrose, I think people ought to spend their own money on whatever they want. Yes, lots of good charities, but a house is very important and I would love to have a larger one on more land.

Okay, you guys have got me hooked. If you have been following my posts you may know me as the novice horse owner with the overweight, downward horse. I have made the decision to get Sunny a custom saddle, but have still been looking for something to use for the next 4-6 months until her saddle is built. During my search I came across a saddle that caught my eye. It was on e-bay, no bids, no questions posted and had 12 minutes left on the auction so I did some very quick research, found ML Leddy had a bother by the same name as the maker and he sold saddles from Fort Worth Texas from 1943 -1968. I put in a bid for $245.00 and bought the saddle. Don't know if the tree is solid or if the leather is rotten, but it was listed as "a good saddle" so I decided to trust the seller that it wasn't total junk and thought with luck it may fit one of my horses or may be cleaned up and re-sold if it does not fit. Anyone want to offer more information on what I bought? Jennifer

I obviously don't know a lot about the saddle making business, but I am one of those 46 year old women who got a horse to re-capture our youth, so I have some understanding of your market. There are a few of us that won't spend a dime for anything, like the woman who got two free horses for her kids to ride, one blind and the second one that passes out and falls over occasionally. Let Wintec have her as a client. However, the majority of people I have met really want to do the best thing for their horse. I will admit that I seem to be the odd ball out on saddle selection. I was lucky with my first saddle. I bought a saddle for $750.00. That could have been disastrous, but it happened that I trusted the right person who sold me a beat up old saddle with a good tree rather than a pretty cheep saddle that looked a lot prettier. I've actually put up with a bit of flack for spending that amount on something so old and ugly. My mare got very wide and the old saddle didn't fit and nothing I tried on her seemed to fit her. I was forced to learn about saddles because the run of the mill advice wasn't working. I don't think the women I know would make the saddle selections they do if their vets, ferriers, trainers and professionals in the industry were better educating their clients. Jennifer

This has been a great learning experience! What I am hearing is that I need to get Sunny in shape, but to get her in shape I need to get her a saddle. From what Rod and Denise Nikkel wrote the main concerns for Sunny is the width between the bars both at the front and back of the saddle and that the angle of the bars and that the profile of the bottom of the saddle be flat. The other concerns dealt with the skirts rubbing the loin or the bar tips causing the skirts to rub the shoulders. From some of the pms I've gotten and what I've read on the forum it seems that I will need to stretch the budget to go with a custom built saddle, but if I stay with a plain saddle my husband won't need to go hungry too long to make up the difference. May cut Sunny back and throw that extra into the budget as well. It sounds like some production trees may fit her, if it is the right one and the saddle maker knows how to keep the underside flat the bar tips curved and blocks the skirts. Still not quite sure what would be done differently for the "downhill" build. What are your recommendations? Production or custom tree? Do you know of any saddles for sale that you believe would be a good fit for the horse? If not do you have any recommendations of saddle makers that don't have too long of a wait time? Do you believe I should wait for the custom saddle till she has some work and finishes growing? (She was 4 years old on May 1.) If so what would you recommend using in the meantime? What about fitting the saddle to the rider? When I rode a lot trail horses back in the 80s each horse had a saddle. We rode whatever fit the horse. When I rode english 3 gait, 5 gait and hunter it was always lessons and you were handed the saddle by the instructor. From what I have read it seems that I would probably be a 15 or 15 1/2. 5'6 163 lbs, but unlike most women I am more of an upside down pear, size 8 pants, size 12 top, 21 inch thigh. Anything else you need to know? How about saddle style. Most of what I have tried lately have been wade style saddles. I think what we rode back in the day would have been what I have seen called low association style trees. To me, I felt pretty balanced in either type. What are your preferences for basic trail riding? I know, I am a glutten - still want more information! Thanks, Jennifer .

I have been confused by your placement of the spine, but I think I got where your coming from. This picure may help clarify for others. Still not sure how you place the front of the backbone based on the outside of the horse, but I get the general idea. Jennifer

No offence taken, I am a novice owner and my mare is suffering the learning curve. I have cut her food intake considerably, but exercize has been a problem throughout the winter. My long work hours, short days, fire, rain and holidays took too big of a toll. I'm changing jobs on Monday, cutting 2 1/2 hours commute time from my daily routine, which should help my horse. Now it is time for me to chew on all this information, figure out what to do, find a saddle and get riding!

A picture of my almost 3 year old. She'll be the next saddle project. Jennifer

Here are the pictures of my mare. Jennifer

I am a business data analyst, not a saddle maker, but I think one of the most difficult problems facing the custom saddle making industry is lack of consumer education. How does the consumer know which saddles are built on custom trees, do they need a custom tree, why should they spend $4000.00 on a plain saddle, when they can buy a fancy saddle on e-bay for $1000.00? They are going to trust big name trainers on RFDTV and their local tack shop. If I Google custom western saddle makers I find a list of 50 makers at http://www.western-saddle-guide.com/saddle-makers.html, www.budshaulsaddlery.com, and www.knightssaddlery.com/aboutandy.html, The only advertisements for used saddles that had any good information on the tree was http://eclectic-horseman.com/content/view/126/100/ which I only found by googleing 93 degree bars western saddle. E-bay ads are worthless. I have market questions that may prove interesting: How many of you pay your local tack shop for referrals equal to what they would make on the sale of one of the production saddles on the shelf? Do you keep track of your saddles after sale? Do you offer to resell your saddles for the customer if they decide to sell? (This could satisfy the buy-it-now customer) Do you know the resale value of your saddles? Are you interested in increasing market share or are you too busy for comfort now? Is your greatest interest the welfare of the horse or your income? Where is the balance? (You may not want to answer this one on a public forum) If you want increased market share how do we go about educating the public and finding the potential customer? Are you interested in being fairly paid for your work product or meeting fair market pricing (what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller)? Do you know what your time is worth? (To make $70,000 / year you need to produce one plain saddle per week, 50 weeks a year, with $1400.00 profit per saddle.) Could you increase profits and share your knowledge by hiring an apprentice or working with students (volunteers) to assist in making the plain saddle parts and learn tooling on scraps? Hope I haven’t overwhelmed you with my discussion points. Jennifer **I split this topic from another because these are good questions, and it was in post #24 of a lonnger thread~Johanna

Thank you for the advice. I will take pictures today. Jennifer

Anyone know someone who could teach the craft near San Diego?

Were heading quick into the season where our animal shelters get overloaded with kittens and puppies and our breed rescues are crazily searching for homes so they can bring new animals out of the shelters. I know our local shelter got overloaded with pits, but we got a fair share of boxers and boxer mixes too! There are gads of boxer rescue groups on the internet and you are the ideal pet owner - the one that takes a pet in as a member of the family and doesn;t discard them when they are no longer cute and cuddly. Love to see your new pets when you get them! Jennifer