hivemind

Well, I guess I'll play my own devil's advocate... Brian R. Price's Techniques of Medieval Armour Reproduction says on page 9 that as early as the 13th century tournament combats were being fought in "armour of polymerized leather (cuirboille)". He cites references of John W. Waterer's Leather and the Warrior, Museum of Leathercraft, Northampton, 1966 and S. Lysons' Archeologia, first series XVII (1814), pp. 302-305. I don't have those, so can't verify the veracity of them, but the second one seems to be based on primary research. Anyone have a copy of Waterer's book?

I wondered who was up late enough to comment on this. G'day! Not late where you are!

This is the second of these I've made, the first was too small for me so I sold it to someone with a smaller head for $50 just to get it out of my sight. After tweaking the pattern a bit, this one fits well. I'm going to wear this myself for Dagorhir fighting. Don't know what the heck that is? Watch this!

Can you cite sources for the use of leather armor in Europe? The circles I move in don't seem to be able to provide such facts.

Better link for above: http://www.touregypt.net/Museum/armorpage.htm And yes, great topic. I'd love to see some Greek, Roman or European examples of leather armor. There's a conversation here: http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=8070&highlight=studded about this as well, from a few years ago.

The hinges on the lorica are brass hinges from Home Depot. Yes, really. The legs and the arms are pretty close to perfect - no complaints. I think the extra washers and not peening down the rivets tightly worked well.

Sure: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=22633 http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=22285 http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=20844 http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=21672 http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=21509 http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=18823 Enjoy!

That's interesting, and if you do find some scholarly evidence of historical leather armor from anywhere between 100 BCE and 1500 CE, I'd be grateful if you'd pass it along. But this: "I suppose I can choose to believe that the leather just decays so quickly that it won't be found." doesn't address why there's plenty of other leather items - shoes, purses, belts, etc. - but no armor. But yeah, I'm totally with you on making historically-based leather armor. I just did a suit of lorica segmentata for a friend from 12oz saddle skirting, and my own current combat armor is historically-styled articulated arms and legs with a Milanese-style articulated cuirass and plackart.

Hey Roy, welcome! Where you at in upstate? I live in Utica.

Current thought on leather armor from the history of Europe goes like this: there are thousands of examples of leather belts, shoes, pouches, tack, vests, and other leather products found all over archaeological sites throughout Europe and the Mediterranean. However, not one single example of leather armor has ever been found at sites of battles, stongholds, armories, burial mounds and graves, or anywhere else. The only leather armor that's been found are padded jacks that were worn under maille, and a few kid-sized stuff that was obviously made as a toy for children. That's it. Leather armor is an invention of Dungeons & Dragons and fantasy literature. Don't get me wrong, I love leather armor. I wear it when I fight and make a lot of it. But don't kid yourself - what you're making is "historically styled", not "historically accurate". Ug, sorry about the rant...

Call D&L Leather at (315) 724-5215 and ask for Rocco. Tell him Dave H told you to call him. He has 4oz bottles of Fiebing's purple for about $3 each and may also have quart bottles for about $11. Shipping should be reasonable for you because we're in Utica NY, only a few hours from you.

Very nice!

The color is Fiebing's Light Blue dye on 12-13oz Tandy saddle skirting. The trick for me has always been to go with a color a lot lighter than I'm actually shooting for then really slop the dye on. This got about three coats, I basically keep putting on dye until it stops immediately absorbing into the leather.

Lorica Segmentata is a Roman type of armor, worn from around 10 BC to 300 AD. There's very little evidence anywhere in history for any kind of leather armor; this would have been made from iron bands and plates then, but the construction is the same. The individual bands of the torso armor are held together by floating joints, so they can compress where they overlap. The guy wearing it can touch his toes, do side bends, etc. He has a full range of motion, less putting both his arms straight up over his head. The drawback of this armor is that it has a very hard time stopping an upward thrust from a knife or short sword (the blade can slip right between the bands, as I demonstrated to Jimmy with the handle of a spoon ), but this particular suit is being worn for a foam-fighting game called Dagorhir, so no worries there.

Finished a guy in my Dagorhir unit's armor tonight, with a little help from my apprentice finishing the edges.

What does the text on the bottom say?

Just kinda banged this out today for a guy in my Dagorhir unit, the Cairnhold Legion. I think the coloring came out pretty well.

He's got them linked funny. Here's the actual pic:

Here's the legs and the arms together at a recent Dagorhir event in Buffalo, Father Christmas VI:

I hit my rivet setters with an 8oz ball peen hammer, and I'm fully aware that it ruins them, but I really like the positive heavy hit when setting rivets. A new rivet setter's like three bucks, if I have to replace it every year I'm fine with that. Nothing else though.

It'll still hold a sword, and practice makes perfect!

FOr the smaller, more elegant swords you Canadians use (Ateliers-Nemesis, Calimacil, etc.) I tend to make these frogs longer (maybe 6" wide instead of three or four) and smaller diameter, and often line them with velvet to save wear on the latex.

Cool. Did you consider articulating the lames of the neck protection?

Second quiver. Done with this one too. I hate painting.

They say great minds think alike...