graywolf

Finally got around to a reasonable near by industrial sewing machine store the other day. They had the Juki DU-1541S for $1600. Physically bigger than I expected. Seemed expensive, so I asked about those plastic sewing machines out front. Know what the most expensive one cost? $10,000. Yes, that is right "ten thousand US dollars". $1600 actually bought one that was pretty much the equivalent of my old Singer 750. So I guess industrial leather sewing machines are not so expensive after all.

Well, I finally got the car fixed and made it down to Bill's Sewing Machines. Talked with Jones Decker as Glenn recommended. Couple of things. He recommended a Juki DU-1189N which he has for a good price. And he said he knows the guy selling the Sew Line machines and they are a decent sewing machines. The 1189N is just a walking foot machine without the needle feed. He also has the 1541S, they are a Juki Dealer, but that is a bit pricy for me. The problem now is fixing the car cost more than I anticipated, and I do not know if I can afford to send the money at this time. SIGH!

Ah, thank you, Wiz.

Out of stock? I made the discovery that I could get 15x2 (leather needle for home machines, although sometimes advertised as 15x1 LTR) in 21 or 22 but not 19 or 20. Now I can imagine having a use for a #20, but not for a 21 or 22 on a home sewing machine. I would think that a #22 for a leather machine would be in about the same gap. So, who knows what goes on in the minds of dealers?

All of which says nothing about those automatic climbing devices. What I know about them is that machines advertised to have them have a large knob on top of the machine. What I surmise is that they somehow make it easier to run over those large seam humps. But that is only, as I said, a surmise. And, yes, Wiz, I know the 111 came out in 1901.

Google brings up a lot of stuff about sewing things for rock climbing and the like, or ad's for sewing machines with them, but nothing I found that tells just what they do & how they work. BTW (& off topic) those rock climbing forum have the same questions you guys do here. Only, think of it, you are hanging in the air 200 feet up and suddenly you realize someone, who knew nothing about sewing, used a $69 plastic sewing machine from Walmart to sew your webbing gear...

Right now the "beginner machine" looks to be a new Consew P1206RB. You should be able to find a new one for around $1000 plus shipping. That's with the table and a servo motor. That puts them down there very close to the "Never Heard of Them" clones. You folks in the big cities may be able to find a deal on a used machine, around here they want more for a beat up old factory machine than that NEW Consew. My recent experiments show that a heavier duty home machine does better than most people think they will (see my recent tread ), but I would not consider one if you are going to use it seriously. I would not be too worried about the machine falling apart, but that you are likely to have too many redos, for it to be profitable.

Rereading, some of the interesting threads here, I see where many argue that a home machine is a good substitute for the real thing. I do not what anyone to think I am saying that! I was just amazed that the little White can do more than I thought it was capable of. Mostly, I had been using it to sew canvas utility bags for audio and photo gear, nothing fancy or pretty about them.

Since the OP dropped the tread in the middle, I guess he either got it working or just gave up. BUT.. As an electro/mechanical tech with about sixty years experience, I can assure folks that machinery goes out of adjustment, or even breaks, just sitting around not being used. Who knows why, maybe the gremlins play with them at night? The point I am trying to make is that "It worked the last time it was used", means nothing whatsoever. Sometimes even when the last time it was used was yesterday.

Well, Wiz, the Consew 1250 is my bottom choice, for the $250 difference over the Sailrite, as long as you are not storing it on a 30' sailboat, it seems the way to go. But then, another $200, or so, gets me a 206 which is what half the auto trim shops in the country use. Of course, that kind of justification can go on forever, in my web travels I saw a really nice machine for only $24.000 the other day (What would someone use a 12 needle, 24 thread sewing machine for?). Actually, I see a machine on eBay I would bid on in a New York Minute, if it was not 700 miles away, while I am having trouble getting my car fixed (After waiting 2 weeks to get it looked at they said they would not even consider doing the job. Now another week to get it into another shop.), I even checked on the cost of renting a trailer down there to bring it back on. Sigh! Tejas, Thanks for the several small tables idea. Might just work for me.

Well, Wiz, you answer some of my questions, like how would it handle a 20-30 foot long seam? But on the other hand can a triple feed machine do that without 8+ foot long tables, which I do not have room for anyway? Of course, smaller panels pieced together are a possibility, if not the best method. One has to figure out the tradeoffs for anything one does. If one is doing commercial sewing one needs the equipment that will do the jobs needed to do, and spares for the more common jobs. No question about that. On the other hand, a hobbyist has to justify the expense, although if you have enough income that is easy. You just say, "I want it". However, with limited income that is more difficult. I have the White which I bought long ago on a whim (it was cute), and a Singer 750 which came with the sewing table I bought for a different sewing machine, but only needed a new rubber feed dog to put back into first class shape; so it became my garment machine (The other sewing machines are finally gone, given away because no one seemed willing to pay for a restored older machine). The 750 does about everything a mechanical sewing machine can do. Straight stitch, zig-zag, lockstitch, chainstitch, embroidery, even basic overlock. I have always wanted a Singer 20U, but I cannot justify one as its only advantage over the 750 is speed and durability, neither of which are all that important for the amount of sewing I do, and they cannot do a lot oft the things the 750 can. I also have long wanted a somewhat heavy duty, not like you serious leather workers need, for the things I cannot do with with the 750. Needing some upholstery work on the convertible and wanting an all weather tent, it suddenly looks like the cost savings of doing those myself, may justify that triple feed machine. (For those who do not know, canvas tents run $500 and up, way up. Replacing a couple of damaged panels on the drivers seat of the car will run a few hundred, and of course any car guy would like to have a custom interior. So, if I actually use the thing I can justify it, but I can not justify it as something to just add to the clutter of the apartment. However, the experiment with the old White Fair Lady confuses me, because it flies in the face of what I have been told and read. How much truth, and how much unfounded opinion, are with dealing with here? I guess that in the end we all have to do our own experiments to find out.

Oops! Follow up. Forgot to mention my expectations. I figured the old White could sew the material, but I expected it to be straining and I expected feeding problems. I had neither of those problems.

OK, still thinking about buying triple feed machine, but I was kind of wondering about an old straight stitch home machine I have. I stopped by the only upholstery shop still open here in town, and begged some scrap vinyl to try it with. The vinyl was left over from a restaurant redo, fairly heavy stuff. The machine is an old White Fair Lady (circa 1964) 763, oscillating hook, 1.3amp motor. Singer 15 type accessories. So called heavy duty nylon upholstery thread (Coats & Clark, about #69) from Walmart. Two to four layers of the vinyl. Seems to work okay with both a 14 or 16 needle. No leather scraps or needles, at the moment, to try. So, what is contrary about this? Well, it zips through the heavy vinyl like it was warm butter, and it seems to feed okay. The only thing I had to do was loosen the bobbin tension about a turn and turn the top tension all the way up, from what sews properly with the usual medium weight cloth and regular sewing thread. So, why do I need a $1200 machine? What am I missing here? (Auto upholstery, canvas tents, and not too heavy leather, is the intended use.)

Speaking from hearsay: it seems like there are a few companies casting the housings (very expensive facility needed) and thousands of companies manufacturing parts. Parts ranging from better than OEM quality, to pot metal. Without that expert how can you tell what you are buying? On the other hand, not being much margin at the dealer level? I think it depends on the dealer, as I see the JUKI DNU-1541s (as an example) selling from $1300 to $2600. Now, I realize there may be a difference in the motor and table you are getting, but not that much. I am willing to believe that a good dealer checking out and adjusting everything may make the machine worth $1500~$1600, but not a thousand bucks more than that. It seems some dealers ARE making real good money! I will not get into used sewing machine sellers', except to say that almost anyone withing 100 miles of me wants more for their old worn out machine than I can buy a new one, including shipping, for. Sigh!

I sometimes wonder what people are thinking support is? Talking to someone on the telephone? Sending the the machine back to have it repaired? If the first, there are folks who did not even sell you the machine that are happy to provide it. If the second, international shipping would be ridiculous, and even if you are here in the US it may not be worthwhile $225 each way x 3 adds $650 to the price of the machine. Now, it may be worthwhile using a particular dealer who will set the machine up for your particular use. But, the fact he is a nice guy 800 miles away is not going to get you much in the way of physical after sales support. Ideally, you ought o buy from a great dealer within a hour of you, but a lot of us do not have that choice. So the next best, seems to me, is to buy from the cheapest delivered, reputable source.

I am going to have to give way to Eric's experience, since he has worked on, maybe, a million more sewing machines than I have. That said, I think I will stick to what works for me in my own sewing

Very nice Uwe, it also show why SPM are 1/2 of RPM, which seems to confuse some folks.

I guess, I have not read as widely as I thought, because, I have never seen it recommended that you pivot your work after the needle has started to rise. Even in light fabric, I have always found that is a sure way to drop a stitch. While I have never sewn heavy leather like you guys do, I would think that it would be even more of a problem. I am with Uwe on this, messing with your loop is a bad thing. After all that is the most critical point in the sewing cycle. If you do not know how the rotating hook actually works, check out this from the rotating hook wiki. As you can see from the bottom up is where all the action is. however that wiki is slightly off, because the loop forms slightly after the needle starts to rise while the wiki makes if look like the hook just grabs the thread from the needle. It actually grabs the loop that is formed when the needle starts to rise. Anything that makes the hook miss that loop is going to cause a missed stitch. Also anything that keeps that thread from being pulled up is going to cause a mares nest under your work or in the bobbin area. So, that is why I say everything from when the needle starts to rise is critical, and stopping the up cycle can cause problems.

Since starting the thread asking about the Sew Line machines, I have expanded my search a bit, looking at the Consew 206 and 1206 plus the Juki 1541S. I would like to see if what I think is correct actually is, so a couple of questions/ At first glance It seems like the Consew P1206RB is a newer version of the Consew 206RB-5. But after reading the specs closely it seems that it is a lighter duty machine. No safety clutch, shorter stitch (7mm vs 10mm), a bit lighter weight. On the other hand it has automatic oiling, a higher foot knee lift (but not a higher capacity), a built in bobbin winder (that may or may not be a plus, expensive to repair), and is slightly slower. It is also a couple of hundred bucks cheaper. Do I have all that right? Anything I missed? And if I do, is there any reason to think it makes much difference to a guy sewing as a hobby? Also, is there anything about the Juki DNU 1541S that would make it worth the extra money to me (I am told it has a lot nicer paint job)?

I usually figure that the "Made in USA" label means the label was put on in the USA. The only time there is going to be a problem is when the owners of the trademark complain to customs, and they are not going to complain about products they are selling themselves. China is weird, what appears to be the same product may be made in one of the most modern robotic factories in the world, and by 3 guys making it by hand in a mud floor hut. It does not help if you have no idea which you are buying. Sorry for adding to the drift...

Sounds like those expensive ones I see on Google. I guess, reading between the lines, you are saying that both types work pretty well?

Seems I have a choice. Cheap ones of course. A google search shows some that cost more than the sewing machine (Who would have guessed?). What are the trade offs between the two?

Thanks Glenn, a local upholstery shop also recommended Bill's. I think I will have to run down there, as soon as I get my current car problem fixed, and check them out. Funny thing is, I found a reputable site selling the Consew 206RB-5 at pretty much clone prices, within $100 at my door. Of course, for most of you guys, that is not such a deal as it is not set up for leather at that price. It also, certainly, means, I would not want to pay clone prices for a used machine. Now, I have to decide if I will actually use the thing if I order it? Oh, I guess it would be polite to say why I signed up here on LW. It is because I found nowhere else on the web that offered so much useful information on heavy duty sewing machines. Much of what I know about them came from browsing here before signing up. Thanks to everyone for all that useful information, the time you spent posting all of it is appreciated.

Humm...? the second tread is the only one that has a comment from someone who has had one of the machines, and his is favorable. The 106RPL is one of the portables, and the couple of reviews on it I have seen were favorable. Not that I am going to make a decision based on that very limited amount of info. Thank you for your help. I guess I should have added to my OP that I am a poor guy with only a hobby interest. Whatever I get is not going to pay for itself.

Yes, I know about the P1206RB at Toledo, and that is what I am thinking of as my outside limit. I have also looked at Keystones listings. I need to check with those guys about shipping before dropping the hammer on anything. But I am still checking my options, right now; and the Sew Line guy is only two hours from me.