JerryLevine

Thanks again! I already do some leatherwork: English bridlery, holsters, rifle slips, etc, but almost no tooling. The only 'wet-work' I've done is moulding over wooden forms for handbags and magazine/knife pouches. The bridlery requires some attention to detail; we sew at 10 stitches to the inch, so I hopefully should be OK with most of that. The tooling does worry me though. I was shown some basic border patterns, and have tried various basket-weave tools, but have yet to take my life (and work) in my hands and try it on a real project. Fingers crossed! On the actual leather, the same problem arises for shipping leather from the USA. I generally use Sedgwick's or Whites, both are reputable companies, equivalent to Herman Oak, etc. In fact a friend of mine in Canada told me (and this is what started this topic off) that I could get away with thinner (so lighter) leather if I used English saddle leather. Any comments on that? The only problme is that most people here sell shoulders or butts. Sides, including the stretchy belly leather, are generally not easy to come by in the substance described in the various books (Stohlman, Johnson, etc) 13-15oz. I'm actually going to the tannery next week to discuss this with them, to see if they'll refrain from currying the hides too much and let me have some sides without too much fussing with them. We'll see..... Anyway, thanks again for tha advice. I will post the various stages of development as I go along. More likely to be my Nikkel tree'd saddle though! Jerry

Many thanks for that. Your advice is what everyone else says! I'm rather stuck with the Ralide tree, though; it was a gift and since I live in the United Kingdom, it costs about the same to ship a tree over (unless you accept abpout 12 weeks for it going by sea) as the tree itself. I have to be in Canada in June, though, which is when I hope to collect my Nikkel tree. However, I've still got to figure out all the variables I want to build in. I'm using the Dennis Lane measuring system, together with lots of photos and video to send off so that I get the sizing/fit right for my horse. After that, I guess I'll be looking through a lot of books (again!) and taking advice about what to order. Then I'll actually need to get on and build it, which will be the challenging part and therefore I feel the need to practise. Maybe I should get some Bowden trees in June, pratice on them and postpone building on my Nikkel tree untill I've built something someone can actually ride in! Thanks again.

TrooperChuck: Many thanks for that. I hadn't considered either a Hope or a McClellan, but I think I'd probably go with the latter. I've got a slot for a tree to be made by Rod and Denise Nikkel later this year (they're very popular and there's a waiting list!), but I've yet to decide exactly what I want in terms of style, fork, seat length, cantle, rigging, etc, so I could always opt for a McClellan tree. I'm currently in Afghanistan for a few more weeks, so I've got some time to ponder! My draw-down stand is being made by a friend even as we speak, so hopefully I'll be able to get straight down to it when I get the tree. Meanwhile, I'm going to 'practice' on a Ralide tree (which was a gift - probably best not to start on the Ralide v traditional tree debate again here!), so I can experiment/make mistakes without impacting my horse too much. I'll definitely post pics of the results of my Nikkel tree'd saddle. Thanks again. Jerry I wuill definitley

I'm about to start on my first saddle. All the source books talk about 10-14oz skirting leather. Does it have to be this thick or could I use thinner leather? A saddle maker friend in Canada feels that English leather could be used thinner, because of the tanning methods we use here. I appreciate that building up the seat requires some thickness, esepcially when skiving it down smooth. I'm keen to make as light a saddle as possible and cutting down on the weight of leather seems to be one way of achieving this. Any advice gratefully received. Jerry

Brent, Many thanks for that; I guess I'll think again. I might have a go a a smaller piece of leather at some stage though! Thanks also to Tim, Randy, Kathy and Dwight for your input. I'll get me some sheepskin and look on ebay for a BIG butter dish! I'll be visiting the tannery I mentioned above later in the year to see if I can get English tanned skirting in the colour I want. I might just take the sides I already have up to them and see if they'll dye them for me! Anyway, I'm off to Afghanistan on Wednesday for a few weeks, so I won't be doing much leatherwork for a while (but I will be taking my 3rd gen body armour!). Having said that, I might take the makings of a bridle and sew it up when the iPod battery dies. Unfortunately, sewing clams take up an awful lot of space in the rucksack; probably better take a sleeping bag instead! All the best, Jerry

Tim, Thanks for the reply. I'm making my first western saddles, following the Stohlman books. It seems that they (and others, such as Dusty Johnson) makes the saddle with skirting in the russet and if required, dye the saddle after assembly. I've always made my pieces (holsters, bridles, rifles slips) from leather that I've either bought pre-dyed or dyed myself, so I gues its just me being fussy about trying to get an even colour (OK - so the 'U' in colour will tell you that I'm a Brit and prone to being fussy!) across the whole piece of leather before cutting it. I suppose I'd rather spend a bit of money on dye (I use Fiebing's Professional Oil Dyes) that might be wasted, and then be careful about placing and cutting my patterns to minimise wastage. Having said that, I've never made a saddle before! Valerie Micheals, a British leather crafter and the publisher of a standard (on this side of the pond) treatise on leatherwork, is my model for this process, and I've always had good, even results with it. By lightly dampening the leather first, then applying a number of lighter layers of dye with an applicator, turning the piece through 90 degrees after each application. After the dyed leather has dried, it is burnished with a boxwood (or similar) burnisher to seal the surface. Its just that a whole side (3 of them) seems a bit daunting and I wanted to be a little more efficient. Jerry

Tim, Have you or do you know of anyone who has tried spraying a whole hide? I got 3 sides of skirting leather in the russet that I would like to dye before cutting. I've seen film of hides being sprayed in an English tannery and was wondering if was possible to emulate it in a non-industrial setting. I've read the posts on using an airbrush (my Wife has a Badger for porcelain restoration), but that may be a little small-scale for a whole sides and I have my eye on an electric spray gun on ebay. Any comments or tips? Jerry

Did you use the ring shanks for everything you'd use a tack/nail for? Were they any particular finish; plated or stainelss steel? Thanks. Jerry

Bob and Rawhide have nailed it above. I would add that I think a pricking iron or pricking wheel gives a better mark for the awl angle than the stitchmarker's saw-tooth wheel. You still need a bit of practice to get it parallel and even coming out the other side, though! Pricking iron teeth marks may also be wider than many stitch grooves, if you get round to trying one. All the best, Jerry

I got a 9 overstitch wheel from eBay. The only company I know of that makes overstitch wheels (as opposed to stitch-markers or pricking irons) is Joseph Dixons, of England. Here's a url: http://www.josephdixon.co.uk/Resources/Saddlers%2011.pdf Unfortunately, they don't sell direct. You'll need to go through Abbey Saddlery or a similar company. Beware though, they'll be very expensive when new. Might be worth holding out for one on eBay. Mine's a Gomph, by the way, although I believe Osborne's used to make them, but not now. I can't speak for any of the makers mentioned earlier; sorry. Good luck, Jerry

Just to add to the above from Barra... First things first - Barra's spot on - new pricking irons ARE very expensive. Try finding them on eBay. They come in different widths (usually 1/2", 1" and 11/2" - Abbey Saddlery stocks all sizes) and you need to judge what's best for you depending on what you're doing. Anything with a tight corner needs the smallest width you can get, and even then, you may need to tip the iron on to its corner to engage on 2 or 3 teeth only, to get round the corner without making a mess. I use 10 SPI on English bridlery, but in the olden days, they apparently used to go down to 16 SPI - hard to imagine! Another thing to be careful of is alignment. Pricking iron teeth tend to be wider than any stitch groove you might use and if you aren't very careful when you're checking the alignment of the marks, you'll get out of line and things start looking messy. Just to be certain, I overlap 1/3 to 1/2 of the iron's teeth to keep everything in line. As Barra says, you don't punch through the leather but use your (appropriately sized) sewing awl at the proper angle. This takes some practice, but persevere and it will be worth your while. Once you've got your awl at the right angle that's comfortable in your hand, you may find it helpful to carve a notch for your index finger in the handle so your grip is always consistent. Finally, pricking irons come in left and right handed versions. Make sure you know which version you're buying. Good luck! Jerry