MMArmoury

Next month I will be greatly expanding my business by delving into the Medieval world, and I will be relaunching my business under the new name of Graye Fox Leatherworks. A new website will be forthcoming, and I will be premiering new products, as well as maintaining my MinuteMan Armoury line. So far my leather "bottels" have been a smashing success, even more than I had hoped, and will be the centerpiece of my business.

I felt so.....dirty.

Hate to revive an old thread (but perhaps one worth reviving), but...... I recently completed an order I should have never accepted. A customer wanted me to make an 18th century cartridge pouch for his son for reenacting the American Revolution era (which is what I do). But he noted that his son was a vegan, and that none of his clothing or equipment could be made of leather (what the...???). So I reluctantly agreed to make the pouch out of upholstery vinyl. Never NEVER again am I going to sink that low in desperation for work. I felt tempted to go out, hunt down and kill a bison with my bare hands, gut, skin, curry and tan the leather all myself, all in penitence for my sin.

Why thank you. I added hemp rope straps which I don't have pics of yet. My second batch should be even better, they will be finished in about a month. Eventually I hope to be adding custom turned wood stoppers. How does white oak sound for stoppers? I think they would look good with these "English" style "bottels".

Finally finished my first ones! I already sold some this weekend and they were a hit, lots of interest in them.

Any more thoughts on the use of welts in the construction? I'm having a tough time deciding whether to start making them with welts.

I have no experience with airbrushing so I cannot help you there specifically. But I was told by an expert the differences between the two products. Spirit dye penetrates deeper than oil dye and dries quicker and with a little less odor, but spirit dye can be difficult to control the evenness of coverage especially in browns I noticed. But that is with sponge or daubers, I do not know how it would affect an airbrush in regards to even coverage.

Here is my next attempt, along side my first. Neither is finished, the first one as I said is my "mistake" prototype, I will use it first at each stage, lining the inside is next. For my second attempt I tried a new shape (I am making several shapes), this was was thinner leather at 8-9oz and fresher (the other had been lying out in the sun in the car for months, that's why it's darker, a natural tan). This time it was much more flexible, I got it to expand to twice the amount of the first piece. I roughly measured the volume to about 4/5ths of a quart, or 750ml, a practical size I estimate. I have to harden it next, don't know if I should re-soak it in hot water. Then to sand the edges and line the interior.

I'm in the USA, New England. I will be using the stuff from Townsends, which is pine pitch. It comes from the Pitch Pine tree (Pinus Rigida) which is common in the Eastern US. Black pitch is made from boiling Birch tree sap which turns black. I don't know of anyone who makes it. I do make a "jacking" solution of 1/1 pine pitch/beeswax and I add lampblack for coloring which is pure carbon. Ironically Townsend also sells it erroneously as powdered ink. One of their ink packets into a one pound of pine pitch/beeswax solution turns it extremely black. I tried using this recipe for cartridge box flaps but I found the results to be too tacky for practical use so I am abandoning it. An alternative for historical black dyeing is the various recipes of "vinegaroon" listed through the forums here, I just do not know what toxicity issues there might be all that iron seeping into the leather, so I do not know if it is safe for leather drinkware. By the way, as to a previous question about cement, I have switched to a latex based cement (Tandy-Tanner's Bond Craftsman #C-1339 Contact Cement), I do not know if it waterproof but it requires a thinner to dilute it (it's pretty watery as is out of the bottle). It reminds me of "liquid latex" used by makeup artists.

You're not supposed to AGREE with my mistakes! Well I'm going to line it with a 1/1 mixture of brewers pitch and beeswax, and do pure beeswax on the outside. I just found out something very interesting from a Tandy manager who has made a few of these himself. He says that the location of the hide the pieces are cut from has an effect on how well the bottle expands during the sand stage. The butt and back sections are tough and do not stretch well, but the bellies are the best for stretching so he recommends making them out of bellies.

After a long while I decided to give a try at making one. This first attempt is what I am making my "mistakes" on. First, the leather I chose was much too thick at 10-11oz, it would not distend much, I hear from others that 8oz is the proper weight. I used aquarium sand, next time I think I'll use popcorn kernals. I had to do the sand twice because I did not realize the first time that you are supposed to pound the sand down with a dowel, the second time I used a dowel and expanded it to twice the volume though I still don't think it's enough, but I have to live with it because the leather is too thick. I also glued the edges before stitching with rubber cement, I wonder what safety factors there are for continued use, I will be shopping for more cement and I will look for a non-toxic one. Also, the straps slots are going to be too long and narrow, on my future versions I will adjust the pattern and drill simple holes for rope straps. Anything else anyone can think of? Oh, and has anyone come up with any ideas for wooden stopper sources? Lastly, upon filling it out with sand the second time I notice that there is a white waxy residue on the outside. I have been wet-moulding tooling leather for years but have never encountered this residue before.

I feel now is a good time to "bump" this thread and keep it going. To return to the original poster's question, I am one who is trying to make a living (part time) with the craft. I am so far having my best year ever in sales and income doing it, but that is after ten years of slogging through the muck of making just "hobby" money, and also what I mean by best year is finally moving up from a few hundred bucks a year into the low thousands. But now it is finally contributing a noticeable amount in my overall income (tiny as it is) and now I am gearing up for my next major genre shift by going into "Ren Faire" stuff (gotta keep the business moving into new territory or it will just die out, too few of my regular Revolutionary War customers left alive). By coincidence I just spent a few weekends poking around a local Ren Faire doing research, seeing what others are making and selling for leather goods and trying to figure out the best new angle for myself to start off with. And a lot of what has already been said here is so true, I spent some good time listening to these merchants as they were eager to have a fellow craftsman listen to their woes. The biggest complaint is that, yes, the public just does not understand the amount of labor that goes into a product. And one thing I noticed about virtually all the "Ren Faire" level of leather goods was that most had an abundance of quick press snap rivets to hold everything in place, almost no hand stitching to be found among any of the merchants. And half of them never bother to do any edge finishing at all. I built up my business doing all my leather hand stitched with waxed linen thread and finished edges, and I advertise my products as better researched and better constructed. I understand that these guys are trying to cut corners on time by going with press rivets and no edging, but they are also succoming to that "Wal-Mart" fever. They are charging $30 for belts that I can do myself at the same price with hand stitching, and I have the advantage that I do stitching demos all the time and pull in customers just by being "different". If I add custom stenciling I can charge a lot more than the guys with the "Tandy-stamped" belts. What was said a few posts back is true; better to make one thing and sell it for $100 than make three and sell for $33 each, you just have to know how to pitch your product to the masses. My demos are a hit wherever I go, yet not one leather merchant bothered doing any demos either weekend at this Faire, despite one of them even being scheduled in the Faire brochure as doing demos both weekends! Lost opportunity to pull in customers! Not that I am criticizing their products, there is a market even for the plastic lined leather mugs, but soon there will also be a market for my pitch-lined flasks. The more the merrier, but to survive in a craft business takes some "craftiness" and finding your niche. Otherwise you are going to get pretty tired pulling the arm on your rivet press machine as you make more and more stuff yet you wonder why you can't turn a profit. And lastly, one of the guys told me a story about a craftsman who makes custom cowboy boots. One set he had on hand went for $8K, and he made another for a Hollywood star for $30K. So much for Wal-Mart Fever. My webpage with a short video of my demos: www.freewebs.com/mmarmoury

Thanks, the Siegal site looks like the better choice. Also I found moose at www.chichesterinc.com

Here's an update on my products. My latest project is the one with the heart cut-out (that's just practice piece) on the flap with a red wool backing. I have switched to a homemade dye using cider vinegar and scrap iron which turns tooling leather into a dark grayish-black. Works like magic and I use it for my public demonstrations as goes from clear to black right before their eyes. Next experiment is to top it off with a jacking finish. I have several authentic 18th century boot jacking recipes, what I will use is a mixture of pitch and beeswax with some lampblack added to further darken the piece. I am considering adding turpentine to increase the penetration, though I am worried about a flash-point as I will heat and melt my mixture in a pot over an open fire for my demonstrations.

I am looking for small quantities of 6/7oz horsehide (10inX6in pieces) and 2X66in moosehide belts 10oz. Any ideas for suppliers?

Thank you. I am still very much an amateur and am still learning. I learned a few basic skills necessary to make what I wanted and mastered them, there is still so much more out there for me to learn.

I have been doing it for about ten years. I have worked with the Concord MinuteMen, I have done the North Bridge event with them several times. Yes, there are surviving pieces to work from but that doesn't stop so called experts from debating every last thread and detail of the replicas. Here's another pic of some of the stuff I make, and some pics of a new wooden drilling brace I just finished making:

I'm new here to the forums. I have been making American Revolution era militia cartridge pouches for about eight years now and I give demonstrations at reenactment events. Here are some of my creations: www.freewebs.com/mmarmoury