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I just thought I'd let all of you know about a pretty reliable source for equine/tack related products. Free shipping for orders over $49. Additional charges will apply if heavy liquids are being shipped. For me, they are a good and affordable source for Lexol Trigger snaps oil and stain application sponges Neatsfoot oil Country Supply http://www.horse.com ed

Thus far I've been using neatsfoot oil to prep/condition my veg tanned briefcase pieces prior to assembly and stitching. Usually it takes about three applications of the NF and a lot of elbow grease. Now that I've purchased Fiebings 4 way conditioner (originally purchased as thread lube) and will be trying the Lexol and the Bickmore, I'm beginning to think that I should use only a conditioner to prep the leather. My question here is should I use only a conditioner, or a combination of a conditioner and neatsfoot? Which should be applied first? I really like how the conditioner goes on and soaks into the leather, bringing out the hide's natural colors. I think I'm going to end up going with a silicone based lube for my thread, $20 a gallon, compared to $11 a quart for the leather conditioner. Though the use of leather conditioner has been obvious to most, I've learned it could be much better utilized for what it is was meant for, conditioning leather. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to my many, many questions. All of you have sped up my learning curve beyond imagination. ed FWIW, I've been wondering about the meaning of "neat," ever since Art mentioned it meant "cow." Here's my dictionaries definition. 1neat \"net\ noun pl neat or neats [ME neet, fr. OE neat; akin to OHG noz head of cattle, OE neotan to make use of, Lith nauda use] (bef. 12c) : the common domestic bovine (Bos taurus)

I've ordered the british tan from Siegels. I've noticed one thing about the Fiebings 4way. It darkens up the leather a bit, which I love. Now I want to try the Lexol to see if there is a difference. I'm beginning to see that maybe Pete's idea of mixing in the British tan is brilliant and will try it soon. Right now, I'm just doing multiple coats of the 4way. Ed

Ferdco returned my call this morning and told me that they stock only the Fiebings conditioner and not the Lexol, which I thought I was ordering. I do like the color of the Eddington Deer, as it looks more natural, but the longer I compared it with the Coats the less of a difference I sensed, especially stitched. With a bit of wear, I can imagine the Coats will look even more natural. I did end up going with the Coats becasue of the tighter twist and the apparently better bond, as I don't go through thread that quickly. Is their a big difference between the Coats Ultra-Dee and the Daband, which Ferdco sent me? I sense that the ultra dee is better suited for marine applications and patio furniture, whereas the Dabond has a less synthetic appeal. Ed

Early results. I've tried a bit of dye with Fiebings 4way and a bit of die with NF pure. The dye mixes completely with the 4way. Not so with the pure NF. Conclusion: 4way over pure NF. Next round: I'll try the Lexol if Ferdco ever sends it to me. But I have a feeling that I will be going with Pete's nod to the Bick 4. It just may be quite different from the other conditioners. But who knows. Maybe it's the dye. All I had on hand was Tandy dark brown all-in-one dye. I'll be ordering the feibings British tan from Siegels soon. Ed

I just got my order from Ferdco. However, I ordered the Lexol 4Way from them and they sent me Fiebings. I'm a little upset because I had already ordered the Fiebings from Siegels, who even though they have great prices on some things ($10 and change for the Fiebings 4way, 32 oz), routinely messes up my orders. It's a part-time job just to double check their accounting and shipping. Is their a difference between the Lexol 4Way and the Fiebings 4 Way, or are they the same just under different packaging. The Fiebings 4 Way I purchased from Siegels is a milky white substance. I had wanted to compare it to Lexol but that's not what Ferdco shipped. Ferdco invoiced me about 18 oz for each spool of thread, but the spools are labeled as 16 oz each. Does Ferdco simply weigh the whole spool, plastic spindle included? We're talking about a $7 difference here. It upsets me when an invoice states one thing and the product another. On a more positive note, I thnk I will be happy with the Coats peasant. Thanks, Bruce, for the recommendation. Ed Ed

Thanks, Pete. I also like the reddish/russet color. I'm going to go experiment on scrap right now with the pure NF and dark brown tandy dye which I have on hand. Thanks so much for this quick lesson on fix-up dyeing. I will be getting some of the British Tan and also some of the lt. brown, as I can now se that dyeing is something i'll have to get more involved with. Now, if I were into dyeing for the sake of coloring and not just fixing up uneven color, I would use the dye straight out of the bottle, unless I wanted to lighten the color, correct? Should I stay away altogether from the oil-based dyes, which are advertised as "new and improved? Ed

Hoe do Tandy dyes and oils compare? Are they good enough to use, or should I stay with Fiebings and Lexol? Ed

does anyone know if it's possible to get harness stitching needles that are shorter than 2"? All of mine are 2 1/4". I'd like to get soe that are about 1 1/2", as it would make stitching a bit easier, especially in areas where the needle needs a bit of force behind it. Thanks, Ed

Art, You asked me once why I ask so many questions. I've taught myself how to work with leather, and have used the Internet to answer the hundreds of questions that pop into my head. Often I come across someone asking a question related to what I'm doing. By following that thread of questioning I give myself a more comprehensive understanding of what I'm doing, not just of the immediate task at hand. I would imagine that years ago one would have had to apprentice for a considerable amount of time or devote a few years of formal study to gradually learn something so significant and useful as what you and Pete have taught me about evening out the natural color of veg tan. As always, each question and answer leads to more questions that I just can't help myself from asking: I'm curious to know why you suggest I start with the Neatsfoot compound first, then the pure, then the 4-way. I'm curious, because I want to know the differences among the three in a practical way so later on I can utilize these oils and conditioners in flexible ways. (I just went back and read your post. You suggest using the compound first because it is thinner. My thinking, here, then, is that if the compound is thinner the application will not be too dark and any mistakes will be easily covered up with a thicker combination of either the pure NF or the 4 Way. Is the British Tan definitely the way to go? What about light brown? I'm buying from Siegels and have to hit the free shipping amount. I was thinking of getting both the british tan and the light brown) Again, thanks so much for your help, Ed

Thanks for your replies. I'm really trying hard to use as much of the leather I can. Many imperfections I don't mind, such as scars, brands, and some insect bits. The cleanest pieces I need are for the flap (16" x 13") and the front face (16" x 12"). The more imperfect pieces I use are used as the center divider, the back, and straps. I'm going to try the dye. I'd like to use what I have on hand. I've got Tandy Neatsfoot compound Fiebings pure neatsfoot Lexol 4-way conditioner Fiebings 4-way conditioner Art and Pete, do you guys think that I can use either the Lexol or Fiebings 4-Way instead of the Bick 4? Are they all pretty much the same? I'm definitely going to get hold of some some British Tan dye. All I have is dark brown and mahogany, which i think will be too dark. Even if the briefcase flap does get a tad darker than the rest of the briefcase, I think the look will be quite nice. Thanks so much for your help. Ed

Some day soon, I will have to upload pictures of my workspace. I'm quite proud of doing so much with so little space. The drawback, however, is that I don't quite have the storage space for quantities of sides which I have to buy when prices are too low to pass up (Siegel's last ridiculously awesome sale, for example). My problem is that some of the leather is being darkened unevenly by indoor lighting and sometimes I have to use leather from a different side for the flap on my briefcases. Either way, I need to be able to even out the natural coloring of the veg tanned leather. So far, I've been oiling the lighter areas more heavily. Today as I was casing a handle, I got the idea of rubbing the entire flap down with warm water to even out and darken the color. Do any of you have other suggestions for evening out the color. I'd like to stay away from dyes. Thanks, Ed

I've been too busy lately to post and read new messages. But it seems like many others have also been too busy and haven't had that much time. Does it seem strange to anone else that that we're all affected in similar ways at similar times of the year? Ed

Thanks, Bruce, for offering to send me samples. I've taken your and Art's recommendation and have ordered spools of the the peasant from Ferdco. I also ordered a quart of the Ferdco 4-way conditioner to use in the lube pot (and have ordered a couple of quarts of Feibings 4-way from Siegels with my latest order -- always want to make sure you hit the $75 free shipping mark with them). Do you thnk most any leather conditioner would work? Pure Neatsfoot oil? Compound Neatsfoot oil? I would think that these might leave marks on the leather. I'm also going out tomorrow to look for 10 weight hydraulic oil for my machine. Ed P.S. Bruce, I'd love to see what the 346 peasant looks like stitched. What do you use it for? I like the thick stitch look but so far haven't used above 277.

Bruce, I like the color of the Eddington deer, not too golden. Campbell Bosworth has 16 ounces for $19.40. Buying by the once would be better for me, as it would take a long time for me to go through a whole pound of thread. From what you say about the peasant, an aged off-white look, I think it may be exactly what I need. By the way, Bruce, how often do you oil behind the face place of your Super Bull 2000? Are there any particular places you oil othe than those that have been marked for oiling or are behind the swing doors? Thanks, Ed

Hi Bruce, I think i want to take your recommendation and get the Coats Peasant from Ferdco. From Ferdco's picture the peasant looks too yello. Not true? Campbell Bosworth sent me samples of their Eddington deer, which seems to unravel a bit. What price does Ferdco ask for their thread? Shipping? Thanks, Ed

What is skirting leather? I like to use 10/12 oz veg tanned for thick padding for my shoulder straps. right now Tandy has some thick skirting sides for $70 an $80 per sq./ft., which seems to be a good price. Why is skiritng leather so much less expensive than regular 5/6 oz or 6/7 oz tooling sides? Ed

Hi Blake, After I read your first post I called CB again and told them there may have been a misunderstanding. This time someone told me that they use it in their needle and awl machines, as you do. Your posts helped me a great deal to figure things out and ask the right questions. Thanks. I think I may just like the paraffin better for burnishing than gum trag. I've burnished two shoulder straps with it, and am very pleased. Would you by chance know of a good source for the silicone based lubricant? Ed

Hi Blake, Campbell Bosworth sent me a sample of emulsified paraffin. I wasn't sure what to do with its white glue-like consistency, so I called them up. The rep told my that it should not be used in my Juki 441/Ferdco Pro 2000/ Artisan 4000. He said it should be used only in lockstitch machines, which mine is. Maybe he thought I was referring to a different machine. He even told me that some people use Lilly White machine oil as a thread lubricant. So, then, you just put it in the lube pot in its thick consistency? You don't dilute it? I've been told by another source taht I should get a silicone based lubricant. Do you think I whould stick with the paraffin. I do like it for edge burnishing. Ed

Well, apparently this emulsified paraffin is not for use in any of the heavy duty harness stitchers. However, I did find out that it's excellent for burnishing. I may buy a gallon just for that once I work through the sample that Campbell-Bosworth sent me. Any opinions on using Lily White oil for thread lubricant? Neatsfoot oil, pure or compound? Ed

Campbell Bosworth just sent me a sample of their emulsified paraffin machine thread lubricant. in the bottle it has a consistency of white glue. Am I supposed to use this consistency in the lube pot or should I thin the emulsified paraffin with water? Would it be better to use a silicon-based thread lubricant? Thanks, Ed

I've spoken with Steve several times. The best Siegels can do is their Diamond Tan. I've actually found a guy on Ebay who has come the closest , a solid 6.5 oz chrome tan, but his supply isn't consistent. I may start utilizing siegel's Rough Rider/ Distressed Cow. Ed

Does anyone know of a good source for the thick leather similar to what Coach uses in its soft briefcases? My guess is that it's a thick chrome tanned. Thanks, Ed

This forum is absolutely fabulous. I was also thinking that it would seem better to have larger surfaces for stropping and sanding. I don't have the space to devote a marble slab to anything but puching, skiving, and the like, but I think I will devote one legal size hardboard for sanding, one for stropping. I've got some commercial veg tanned. It's supposed to be 4/5 ox but is more like 3/4. I'll use that, per Bruce's recommendation. would Neatsfoot oil be suitable as an agent to hold the roughe to the leather? Ed

I've got a craftool pro rotary leather puncher and the punches don't line up in the center of the anvil. If the leather is 4 or more oz, the punch misses the anvil by 1/2 or 3/4. Is this an inherent problem with these punches or just mine. It used to work fine. Thanks, Ed