joe59

Almost everybody who has played with leather wants to build a saddle. Some of them will start a saddle. A few will even finish one. Fewer still will build another. The next group(including me)are those who will try to make a living at it. The smallest group are those who actually can make a living at it. Building a good quality saddle is it's own reward and my hat is off to anyone who has the desire and passion to do it. It is a hell of a way to make a living but it sure beats work! My personal library, collected over almost forty years, includes authors John Beck, Dave Jones, Al Stohlman, John Hooper, Lee Rice, Randy Steffens and Harry Adams, just to name a few. With the books, I have collected magizine articles, patterns dating back to the late forties and early fifties, old saddle company catalogs, DVDs (videos) and pictures. I could be said that I am an information junkie. All of these are great references. I learned more about making saddles by repairing saddles, everything from handmade coustom saddles built by famous makers to mass produced junkers. Studying the different construction techniques will give the prospective saddlemaker a good idea as to what and what not to do. I also have had the opportunity to visit and talk with saddlemakers from all over the country. The ONE thing all makers stress is the mechanics involved with the construction process. In my opinion, it is more important to become proficient with your tools before starting something as big as a saddle. Practice cutting and skiving with a round knife. The same with edgers, slickers, ect. Know what each tool is used for. Practice hand sewing. Learn how to read the leather. Know how to case leather. You should also know the terminology associated with saddles and saddlemaking. Before starting the saddle or buying a DVD, determine what type of saddle you want to build. Do you want a swell fork or slick fork? Do you want a roper, trail, barrel or cowboy saddle? What type of rigging, skirts, ground seat, seat, ect.....? All of these questions should determine which book or DVD you will look for. Make your decision, obtain the DVD or book, study it over and over and over before starting the saddle. Follow the instruction closely. I do not think it is a good idea to try to get multiple DVDs when first starting. Build the saddle to the DVD you have you will learn alot. When you finish and want another challenge follow the same process. This is a great site and there are people who will answer the questions you have along the way. If you get a chance to go to one of the leather shows. Whickenburg, Elko, Sheridan, Wichita Falls, Pendleton........ There are always classes and saddlemakers that are a wealth of information. Good luck.

My favorite weights are old sadd irons. ( the ones Grandma used to do her ironing) I glued a piece of chap leather to the bottom. Be careful of your toes if you knock them off the bench. I also have several bags in various sizes and shapes. Most of them are filled with number 7 1/2 shot. The one I use for my saddle seats is bananna shaped and weighs 25lbs. I have a friend who owns a spring shop, he gave some scrap pieces anywhere from 2 to 4 inches wide and 4 to 8 inches long. They are 3/8 inches thick. I wrapped them in 3/4 oz. veg tan. I find that I can never have enough weights on hand when laying out patterns.

Pete and Dirt Clod are right on the money. Sewn or sewn and riveted using a rivet and burr. Also I keep a cheap bottle of nail polish on my bench and in the horse trailer. It works as well as lock Tight and it keeps better and is a lot cheaper.

The older C.S. or H.F. Osborne bag punches are narrower than the newer ones. JOE

Jeff I agree with Bruce, Ron's edgers are good. I have used them as well as Bob Douglas's. The ones I have on my bench are an assortment. I use a #2 from Barry King that is designed for tight areas like slots on a Cheyenne Loop holster. I have a very small edger (no maker maybe an old crafttool) used on light weight lining such as pigskin. I use a #2 or #3 (Ron's) common edger for most of my other work. I also have a old Osborne #5 Bisonette that works great on the main seams when a filler is used or on a saddle scabbard. The key on all edgers is to keep them sharp. Joe

Hooligan, I'm sorry that I don't know how to post pictures. I will try to explain. With the hanger(the strap that goes over the neck) adjusted correctly, the breast collar should be at the point of the shoulder. I use a half breed on the off side of my saddle and the tug wraps around it. After I pull my latigo the near side tug wraps around it. Looking at the breast collar, it should be level with little if any contact with the chest. Hope this helps. JOE

Shelly, Bobby, It seems that I am chasing you around the leatherworker site. I agree with both of your comments. I used to tear myself apart by becoming involved with justifying my prices. I realize that in this business that there are certain jobs I would rather not do, (srtap work and belts jump to mind) but that goes with the territory. I do this work to get my name and reputation out and about. I would like my costomers to come to me because they want ME to build their saddle. If you want me to do the job, this is what it will cost. If time permits, I try to build a "spec" saddle to have on hand. Sometimes the spec saddle will sell a custom one. On this topic, there are posts that compare saddles to cars. I go a few steps farther. When I was doing a repair and my knife "slipped" I cut my hand almost to the bone. There was some serious bleeding and tendon damage. I did not haggle with the Doctor about price. He put my hand back together and I paid the bill. I use my Vet, not because he is the cheapest, but because he is darn good at what he does. The tree maker I use may or may not be the cheapest, I do not know or care. We have an excellent working relationship and more importantly, he stands behind his work. Recently, I have seen warning lables on saddles. Is this because they are falling apart and the company is playing CYA? I believe that most people are asking the wrong question. Instead of asking "Why do these saddlemakers charge so much?" they should ask "Why is this saddle so cheap?". How a saddle is made should be more important than how much it costs. As a rule, the best saddle makers are the ones who have spent time in a saddle. Enough said. JOE

Looking at the picture, I don't see anything wrong with the collar. In my opinion the tugs are wrong. By running the tugs to the rigging Dees, they are higher than the collar. Once again when the saddle starts to slide back,the collar will travel up to be level with the Dees. "Slackening " the hanger will only allow the collar to ride lower and it will still ride upward until it is level with the rigging Dees. The pulling collar is similar to the breast collar used on a driving harness. It hangs properly at the point of the shoulderand is used to stableize the "saddle". The hanger is adjusted so that the breast collar "hangs" level and the "tugs" run strait back. Running the tugs (two on each side) one to the rigging Dees and one to the cincha ring will make a triangle that will distribute the pull. Running the tugs strait to the latigos (the truck fender) will allow the collar to hang level. Properly adjusting the neck carrier, will put the collar in the correct position and there will be no strain or contact until the saddle moves backwards. The tugs will also be shorter when they are run strait back. I have (as stated before) used this style of breast collar most of my life. I have also built this collar for many of my customers per their request. Many of these people are packers, outfitters, working cowboys and high desert buckaroos. Four of them work or have worked as packers at the Grand Canyon in Arizona. From the top to the bottom and back there are some of the steepest grades anyone will encounter. Also, when some of the thirteen hundred pound and up pack mules hang back they will stress test any type of rig. I have never had a complaint. The roper style of collar would be my second choice for work. Properly adjusted, the roper collar forms a triangle that distributes the pull and stress evenly. If the center strap is too loose, the collar will ride up even with the rings where ever the tugs are attathed. The roper collar cut on a contour that is not too narrow is a great tool. Another type of breast collar that is gaining popularity is similar to the roper collar but the tugs are run under the gullet and up over the swell. This, to me, pulls down on the front of the saddle and would cause the point of the bars to dig into the shoulders. I agree with Hidepounder's statement about improperly fitting or improperly cinched saddles. If you can identify why the saddle is moving, then you can choose a collar that will help with a solution. Please, I would not want anything to get the impression that I am trying to be the last word on breast collars. These are just my opinions backed up by years of practical application.I have owned and ridden a good many horses that didn't need a breast collar. The saddle could be stableized by using both the front and back cinchas. Over the years I have seen horses carrying all sorts of clutter ( tie downs, back cinchas, martingales, breast collars, ect) because everyone else is has one. If you don't need it, don't use it. Tony the pony works hard enough without adding extra weight. JOE

Chris: Regarding your questions: 1) The size of round or oval punch is determined by the size of the tongue in the buckle. On an 1 1/2 belt or strap, I generally use a #5 oval. The oval punch allows the tongue to fit cleaner in the hole and looks more professional. 2)Again the size of the oblong punch used is determined by the size of the buckle. Most times, 1" or 1 1/4" will work fine. 3)Use the English Point that is the same size of the belt. If you are making alot of belts or doing alot of strap work then buying the most used strap end punches is recomended. This will allow all the ends to be uniform and it is faster and eaiser than making and using templates. You can also set your dividers to the width of the strap, and using a square, mark first one side then the other. This makes a uniform point. I ues this method on any strap over 2". Joe

I am not trying to start an argument just passing on some information. I have cleaned, restored, repaired, referbished, and resurrected countless saddles and tack items in my forty year career. I have also tried everything under the sun to clean these items. Several people have told me about Murphy's Oil Soap so I looked into it. On the list of ingretients there were some I could not pronounce. I called the the 800 number on the label and the representitive recommended against using it on leather. It is a fine product to use on wood. Years ago an old saddlemaker, who helped me get started, told me never to put anything on a horse that was not alive at one time and never use anything on your leather that you would not use on yourself. To that end, I use 100% wool pads and blankets, mohair cinchas, leather reins, headstalls, breast collars ect... I also use natural oils and soaps on my leather. Some good pieces of scrap woolskin with the wool trimmed to different lenghts, a good saddle soap, lots of sweat and plenty of time are the key to a good cleaning. The folks at Bee Natural make an excellent saddle soap. I tried it a few years ago and it is great. Using the soap and a small amount of water I will work the soap into a lather and wipe it off with a soft colth. I repeat the process until until the lather is clean. I then rinse with clean water and let dry. After the leather is dry, I will use either Olive Oil or Bee Natural's #1 saddle oil. Small amounts of oil several times is better than a lot of oil all at once. I still use glycerine saddle soap( bar, paste and liquid)but I try to avoid petrolium based products or products with a high PH balance. Joe

Another good place to find good used tools is the The Tooling Bench. Dick and Lillie levitz are the owners and I have bought several quality tools from them. E-Mail: toolingbench@msn.com JOE

I agree that attatching your tugs to the rigging Dees (as in the picture) is not the best, especially with the breast collar you are using. If you look at the horse before you start riding, most times the front of the collar will be below the Dees. As the saddle starts to move back when traveling up an incline, the breast collar will move up the chest level with the Dees. This puts the collar in the wind pipe and can restrict breathing and cause discomfort and often times panic in the animal. I have used the "old timer", tripping, or pulling collar most of my life and have never had a problem with shoulder restriction. I run my tugs directly to my latigos. The neck strap is adjusted so that the collar "hangs" level. If I know that I will be doing some heavy roping, I will run tugs from the breast collar to both the rigging Dees and the cincha rings. Also, I do not use a center strap (the one from the collar between the legs to the Cincha). If the breast collar is adjusted correctly I do not see a need for it. While on the subject of breast collars, they are as many styles as there are saddles. Each one has its own advantages and uses. I have talked with other saddle makers and each of us has a different opinion as to which is the best style as well as the best place to rig it up. The best advise I can give is to try different styles and use the one that works best for you and the type of riding you do. Conformation, proper saddle fit and padding will also aid in your choice of breast collars.

I use a sanding block and a sanding sponge. You can get them at the local hardeware store. To get them back to the rough out stage it takes a lot of time and a lot of elbow grease. Joe