David Genadek

I have an e-mail off to Pop to see if it is ok with him to post the instruction he hands out at his classes. I am also in the process of gettting some metel framed looms manufactered that can handle every style of cinch.

Here is Darin talking about the cord. Here is Darin on how to clean a cinch Pop is a great teacher and his classes are a blast. David Genadek

Great for setting the liners it gets all the wrinkles out which is important as it is the edge you are guiding with when sewing. It is also great for doing cantle bindings. David Genadek

I just looked at the Bull set up and like thier plate better than the one I use. A few other issues can cause it. If your liner is too thick and you have to push in on the stirrup to get the stitch line where you want it the needle will deflect. Another common issue is that in your prep you have left space between your outside piece and your liner. I use an air chisel to force that gap closed but a tickler will work too. If there is a gap between the liner and outside piece it can cause needle deflection. David Genadek

Here is a bit on mohair cinches David Genadek

Ann, You did not mention what you were sewing. We have had the problem here but we use an Adler so I'm not sure it is the same . On ours you take off the bottom feeder foot so you no longer have compound feed. Because it is now just a needle feed machine you have to be sure to gently guide the material or you will deflect the needle and the hook will miss the loop. We used to do a lot of stirrups and every new person would go through the stitch skipping until they would relax and let the machine do the work. I also altered the plate by rounding the corners and grinding the edge that will be next to the leather so I could get my stitch line where I wanted it and this helped releave some of the pressure on the needle. I have attached a photo of my alterations. The plate pictured has done many thousands of stirrups. I often use cardboard mock ups to train people on the machine. I also do this if I am doing high end custom work so I can get my hand moves down before I go to the leather that I have many hours in. David Genadek

Here is a product that you could finish with and they would be imperviouse to weather. Clear coat I use it to seal my trees it would take about 2 oz for your bars so don't freak when you see the price. This stuff penatrates really deep so it would probable still be good after they rasped. You might also be interested in a ShopBotBuddy for your duplicating it is the most machine for the money that I have found but would be glad to know of something better. I would love to see a picture of the duplicater you made. David Genadek

These are by far the best designed pack trees I have ever seen. You have flair in the front and you have the trees orientation going correctly. I would say you have a lot to contribute!!! If you need a really good foundry check out Morel industries I just got some horns done by them and they were great to work with and the quality was way beyond anything I have seen in our industry before. I got some tempered Aluminum horns for less than what I was paying from Boise foundry. David Genadek

Yes Terry explained all that to me. It always seemed strange to me that iI could sharpen a knife and try to use it a few days later and it would be dull. It was fun to learn I wasn't crazy,in that regard anyway. David Genadek

You should call and talk to Terry about it as he well versed in his steel and is very open with his knowledge. How he is treating the stainless is what makes the differance. The point is you don't need to sharpen but rarely. I was really skeptical when some people I respect told me they don't have to sharpen just strop. Sharpening has been real battle for me having people working because few can sharpen a knife. If I have a couple of employees I spend alot of my time sharpening tools and now that is off the table for the round knives. I have had most every brand of round knife out there. I usually get about two years out of a knife. The Buchmans I've gotten about four. Knipschields may be the last knife I have to buy. Terry kept asking me why I wanted so many knives so I told them it is a good knife I want to make sure I have enough of them to last my life time. The notion of the knife wearing out was very strange to him. These knives are a game changer. David Genadek

If you check with the tanners council I beleave they will tell you 100% neatsfoot oil would be the best followed by some fish oils that you probable wouldn't be able to get. David Genadek

I purchased a new round knife from Terry Knipschield about a month ago and all I can say is this thing is unbelievable. I was getting a bit concerned because my Bill Buchman knives getting down to an unusable size. Someone at our leather guild meeting told me about Terry Knipschield and I was frankly pretty skeptical as I was pretty attached my Bill Buchman knives. I've cut up two roles of leather, cardboard, fiberglass I've even cut dry Rawhide (just to see if I could)with it and all it had to do is strop it a few times. They also don't get that micro bead of rust on the edge when they sit for a few days. To be able to grab a round knife with my thumb and index finger and push it through skirting with no more pressure than that is an unbelievable arm saver. When I first saw Terry's knives they edged out my Buchman's by a little bit but then he went to the trouble of coming and spending time cutting out a couple of saddles with me and then went home with a pile of scrap and began playing with angles. The result sets a new standard in roundknives. After a month of use and I have not had to sharpen once!! I generally have to sharpen at least once a day. If you do any leather work at all you need one of these knives. www.knipknives.com David Genadek

Think bicycle seat

Well you used to be able to define things by price point however, in today's market we have people who are just above beginner level in their own horsemanship passing themselves off as Master horseman and selling $800 saddles for $4,500.00. So, today my criteria is going to be based primarily on materials used and construction methods utilized followed closely by overall design. In the case of Steel saddle tree company his largest customers are the larger factories and that is why he is the largest Western saddle tree manufacturer in the world. As for the Steele Saddle company I would assess it as a low end saddle because of the construction methods used and the seat design and fender position. These things tell me that they are gearing their prodiuct for people who are new in the gaited horse market who are being heavily influenced by the Tennessee style of training and riding horses. I believe the word custom is being very overused in the market today. In my business I do not use the word custom as what I'm currently doing is customizing a factory saddle. The term I use for what I do is called Mass customization which is what most of these people that claim to be custom saddle makers are actually doing. For much of my career I have actually been a custom saddle maker so this is one of my pet peeves. A custom saddle is one in which you work with the saddle maker from the tree design to every minute detail on the saddle and the saddle makers probably going to build the entire saddle from start to finish, less than that is a variation on a production type saddle. With that said the reality is not everyone can afford a custom saddle and low end doesn't necessarily mean bad. My company builds a line of saddles that are geared for the lower end of the market. However, what we never compromise on is the design of basic functionality. It is up to the horse owner to gain enough knowledge to be able to tell the difference which certainly can be a challenge. Salesmen are not always the best group of people to get facts from. David Genadek

Gullet width is a measurement used by people that really don't know anything to make it sound like they know what they're talking about. However, there is a very important underlying concept and should be understood by all horse owners, tree makers and saddle makers. Measurements do not define shape. In the attached picture you will see six different shapes. To make the shapes I cut six pieces of wire 24 inches long. So you can see in measuring them I can say they are all 24 inches but yet they are vastly different shapes. In the top row you will see a triangle, a circle and a rectangle. These three shades of very familiar to all of us when I say Circle you know immediately what shape I'm talking about because you know the word circle represents an data set of going that far equal distance from the center point. When hear the word rectangle you understand vaguely what shape it is going to be until you have a set of data that defines the height and width you really don't know what shape the rectangle is. the triangle takes even more information you need to know the measurement of two sides and an angle or two angles and a side to be able to properly define the shape. Trigonometry is a whole math designed to allow us to figure out the shape of a triangle. So there are three very simple two-dimensional shapes that take a lot of information to define what shape they actually are. How would you go about defining the shape of the three bottom shapes? I have also attached a picture called bar comparison pdf of my most common bar shapes as you will be able to see my angle ranges exceed what others are discussing here and this is only the mid range of what I deal with. Last year I did trees ranging from 80° to 140°. The profiles in the PDF are actual sections of backs from real horses. The rectangles underneath are our attempt to find some type of ratio analysis to understand back shape. They do serve as a summary of the overall shape of the bar and its orientation in three-dimensional space. When you're talking about saddle fit you're talking about very complex shapes, imagine a pyramid plunging its way up through a book binding. When you can see that then you will realize that making a big deal of gullet measurement is like saying the bottom three shapes in the shapes picture are 24". It really means next to nothing because measurements do not define shape. Another thing that is important to understand is that whenever you make a change in a measurement of a tree it also requires a adjustment of the overall shape of the bar. This is why the military failed with the saddles that had self adjusting angles. You can change the angles but if you don't also change the overall shape of the bar you will have problems. David Genadek 01-12 2009_Bar no 3 thru no 1 testing correlations.pdf 01-12 2009_Bar no 3 thru no 1 testing correlations.pdf

Saddles by Steele is run by Wayne Steele. His son Eddy Steele runs the tree company that makes the equi- fit saddle trees. They live on the same road but it seems they only talk when they absolutely have to. Eddie is a fourth-generation tree maker Wayne is the third generation. Eddie also had a brother that was involved in the saddle tree company and somewhere in there the factory got burned down and now I don't think the brother is involved anymore. Eddie had left the business for a while and was doing pattern making for local foundry but once the factory burned down he came back in and re-established everything. Both men have an extraordinary amount of skill in the art of tree making, however, both focus on lower end markets. David Genadek

For a long time now I have been having trouble with this site. Some days it will work some days it won't. I have three machines and it is consistently inconsistent on all of them. So I ran trace route and found that the site is consistently getting blocked at the 13 ping which is a server in Dallas. Is there anything I can do about that? David Genadek

I vividly remember my first meeting with Bob Brown. He pulled out a yellow handled screwdriver with a bunch of electrical tape wrapped around it and began cutting into the leather as though he were drawing with a pencil. It doesn't matter how you get there only that you get there. David Genadek

Denise, I wholeheartedly agree with what you've said I should have been more specific with my statement. The pressure pads in knowledgeable trained hands are surely a valuable although somewhat limited tool. However, used within the context of saddle fitting for hirer they become a gimmick. I think it's also important to note that it was a technology that Ferrand invented for monitoring patients in hospital beds which he then tried to expand his market into saddle fitting. This is important to realize as its original purpose was that of taking measurements in a static system which is a far cry from the dynamic situation of saddle fitting. One of the limits of the systems in the past has been that they were unable to capture the data while the horse was moving. I know there were people working on being able to do that but I don't know where it ended up. As I learn more about horsemanship I became less interested in the use of the pads,as it seemed the information that could be gained was very limited and even those things that could be measured need to take into account the skill of the rider. I have been impressed by some of the things I have read coming out of the University researchers that did that article. They are some of the few researchers that are conscious of the immense role that the rider has in the process. Most saddle fitting research is really measuring the riders ability to govern the five essentials of riding. Considering that the serratus, Latissamus, trapezius, and the Rhomboids will all be directly affected by the riders ability to tension the dorsal ligament ,measureing anything in regard to saddle fit without using highly skilled riders and horses that are not in a pathological state means that the research is actually measuring is the effectiveness of the rider. Right now most of the research is just telling us very few people know how to ride anymore. Even further you see this trend among saddle professionals who are focusing their whole efforts on fitting pathological backs. Consider how pathological a back would need to be for people to conclude that they could roll a ball and it would go to the anticlinal vertebrae. The anticlinal vertebrae which is most often to be found at thoracic vertebrae 16 is designed by nature to be at the apex of the acute curve of the back. David Genadek David Genadek

I used them a bit when they first came out. I know two people that had purchased the systems prior to the big lawsuit. It was nice to have scans showing that my bars did exactly what I had thought they would but a person's hand can tell them the exact same thing just as easily and at much less expense. Where I did find the information very helpful was in regards to pads. I design my bars for use with a Navajo blanket and when used with a Navajo blanket the scans came back the best these people had ever seen however, when a heavier pad was used we started getting pressure points all over the place. It was good information to have when I started designing trees for the PRCA Ropers because I knew that they would be using heavier padding I was able to compensate in the shape of the bar. Ferrand won of the lawsuit and since my friends had purchased their systems from the company that was in violation of the patent they could no longer use their systems of which they had invested close to $30,000 each.Ferrand then stop pushing the notion of computerized pad and began pushing his Saddletech gauge. I still believe this is probably the best device that anyone has come up with for getting a handle on saddle fitting. I pleaded with him to do it at an affordable price and to establish a database that the information could be fed into and shared. In the end he kept the device priced too high. Despite that it still stood a chance of creating a real change unfortunately he then aligned with Len Brown at Orthoflex and tried to get the government to impose standards for saddle fitting at which time he lost all support from the industry.Ferrand also lacked the depth of knowledge he needed in equine biomechanics and ridding, as such he started the tree company that advertised that it would make asymmetric trees based on the readings he got from his gauge. They used laminations to create the shape. In the end this is the tragic flaw behind every research study I have seen on saddle fitting.The rider has a responsibility in this overall equation they must be able to govern the five essentials of horsemanship especially the first essential which is straightness. Without that the reciprocating systems in the six limbs of the horse's body become out of balance and asymmetries are created. Further the asymmetries prevent the proper tensionning of the dorsal ligament which then affects all the major muscle groups that attach to it. Personally I think everybody would be much better off spending their money on some real anatomy courses then these gimmicks just wouldn't be necessary. David Genadek

We will be having two cinch making classes one on November 7 and another on November 8. The classes will be taught by Pop Wagner who works closely with Darin Alexander. The classes will be held at my shop in Spring Valley Minnesota. For more info call 507-346-2766 or go to www.popwagner.com. We are located about 20 minutes South of Rochester Minnesota. David Genadek

Ok here is the response I received today. This is from a group of very exclusive military saddle collectors form around the world. Dave: I am quite sure it is not an American military saddle, and our experts over at TMH don't think it is British. The shape is that of a Whitman, a saddle type experimented with by the Cavalry but ultimately not adopted except for officers. However, it is absolutely NOT a military Whitman. The Whitman saddle company made civilian ones for many years –well into the 20th century. It could be one of theirs or one made like it by someone else. That's my best guess. The foot staples on the cantle do add a bit to the mystery. Usually those are for attaching saddlebags that use slots and leather tabs – as do McClellans. Military Whitmans had those, too. However, the military ones were split-seated like McClellans, and used center -fire rigging like McClellans. They are also very scarce and very old. We can't rule out officer's private purchase, as officers had to buy their own and rode what they pleased. Similarly, we can't rule out police. However, there is no evidence to rule them in, either. If I were selling it on Ebay, I'd call it a "Whitman type" saddle and be sure and point out that although the shape is much like a Whitman, it is not military and it is rigged differently from many Whitmans. Cheers! Joe David Genadek

Natalia, Tomorrow night at 7 PM Central standard Time I'm going to be giving my new webinar a test run. You would be welcome to join I have attached instructions for how to join. The webinar will answer your questions about the bar length and you will also see film showing you why what these people are claiming about these flexible bared saddles is nothing short of a lie. You can then judge for yourself the depth of my understanding of these systems. David Genadek webinarflyeropt.pdf webinarflyeropt.pdf

I tried to post this a while back but in the site transition it looks like it got lost. I have forwarded the pictures to a group of very serious military saddle collectors. I was only able to download one picture before, the one of the saddle. Here was the reply I got. Thatsaddle that your friend was asking about – on a decent-sized screen it does notlook like a UP to me. However I am asking others. Not sure, but itcould be a civilian or police version of a Whitman. Do you know if it hasany markings? I just sent the other two pictures with the stirrup and the marking and we will see what they come up with. If this group doesn't know what it is then it isn't much of anything in terms of collectibility. David Genadek

Embrace new technology when it is grounded in sound fundamentals. One good example of this is using alternative coverings rather than Rawhide on the tree. Resin technology has come so far in the last 20 years that using resin and fiberglass or carbon fiber would probably test out to be stronger than using the Rawhide. In the case of saddles that have flexible bars the reason they don't work is because they attached them to rigid fronts and cantles which prevent the bar from flexing in the direction that you would really like them to. Also consider what it takes to bend something or flex some thing if I want something to bend down in the middle you have to increase the pressure on the front and the back. So even though the middle is now touching the horse you have to consider that you are increasing the pressure on both ends to create the bend. When you look at the realities of these flex treed saddles it is so absurd from an educated standpoint that it is unbelievable that they can even exist in the market. They are the equivalent to selling refrigerators with heating coils in them but it just goes to show how extremely confused the horse owning public is. Honesty and integrity is a personal choice. David Genadek