Choice 441 (juki tsc 441 clone)

[Marcremb]

Hello. I do Upholstery for living. I have 9 different sewing machine. I bought this 441 clone because i sometimes have to sew thick 

To be able to sew Upholstery stuff on it i have cut a slot with my dremel at the other end of the presser foot bar so i can install any kind of Walking foot Singer feet . It works great. I am very happy about it. 

The only thing is that the feed dog lifts to early before the needle and walking foot (needle foot) gets to the needle plate. 

So because it's large (feed dog) it lifts the presser foot before the needle foot (walking foot) gets down to lift the presser foot 

I would like to know where is the adjustment for that on the machine . Thanks 

[RockyAussie]

Great idea there, I will have to have a look at that. Have you tried to lower the feed dog down first? Is there any reason you are running the blanket foot plate and feed dog? Did you lower the back presser foot bar to get it that low for the singer foot? If you put a 1mm piece of leather under the throat plate and screw it down you may find that it will in effect lower the dog foot further down as well.

[Marcremb]

Hello RockyAussie 

No i didn't try to lower the feed dog because the theet are Just fine over the needle plate Just like on my other machines (what they say in the owner's book). 

I bought it used. It had 3 months old. I guess that it wasnt adjusted right at the manufacture before it got out because i had to adjust the needle centered in feed dog. The needle was way back in the feed dog hole. 

So probably that  issue needs another adjustment. But this one i dont know how to do it. I dont want to create another issue 

And yes i had to lower the presser foot bar, put a washer between the walking foot bar and  the foot +Also cut a longer hole in that walking foot for the needle to be free. 

 

[Marcremb]

Longer hole in the middle foot (walking foot) 

[RockyAussie]

2 hours ago, Marcremb said:

put a washer between the walking foot bar and  the foot

Could you show this please? For adjusting the timing in case you have not seen it before I will show this link to a video done by one of our best members on this forum @Uwe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT3AVgj_HLI&t=116s

If you follow right through on all of the steps you will get to where the adjustments you want to change. Another thing that may help you is this link to where I helped develop a narrow needle plate and dog foot that may help to stop the dog foot from lifting your back presser foot.

If you want to get a set pm me with your address details and I will get back with a cost.

[toxo]

10 hours ago, Marcremb said:

To be able to sew Upholstery stuff on it i have cut a slot with my dremel at the other end of the presser foot bar so i can install any kind of Walking foot Singer feet . It works great. I am very happy about it. 

 

What a brilliant hack! I'm clumping myself upside the head for not coming up with this myself. The difference in price for these feet is nothing short of colossal.

I have a full set of spring edge guides for my Durkopp 239 (same as Singer 111) at these kind of prices,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272615402952?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3f7924edc8:g:X7sAAOSws5Fd6wyH&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAAA8OXjs%2BI1MGoQ7%2FATpDVSnMmwny3eCaXi00TVQ8nbKWs%2FFa%2FdUYS2Ghc3ZDu6%2B%2F3qk1rH%2FNEesLTlPwgVYgsyN5j557YLmYUpE4JKVBv3mC%2FKl39eNhoSu01GgOPpXe5Q2EIP%2BJd7EWnoTklVzH4oai2D9o5ufMbPaCDUd8kLWgbiRO5o4e5zZ0TahA7RfVtaVeJqX9dBrfOUwulW1ZEvCNQemrI1k%2FJm9qfitywPX%2BaKhHr0megxA488rFpZ2NnJ%2F%2FsbyEyPU55V7EavRjtwFbLZt1jVaju6vdiMU8U0rh7pstdxiAV3a0unyxUolxH4yQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABFBM5v6Rivhf

Versus the same thing for my Adler 69, and this is for one set of left and right of only one size. To buy the equivalent of the above would cost hundreds of pounds.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274602014562?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3fef8e3762:g:7gIAAOSw0FRfy1Qz&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAAA8HoBzgn4MVYBxeC18IScxgvjoddY%2B6m4aTIQKygVVqUTqCWw7f%2F1L5UKhFJnz%2FVSBvpr5m5NsP9XXPtZYJLU5kqpjOd99e5jfb9cv44R7f41pKYKFkah0adAM%2FJGOu8bMkf0ULRoZvQf388iLbaOFD%2B4v1Y4YlDV5wUWVcNJlD0261nzS0wv6jv59p%2FlUgCd90CvHXXnDI8%2BhUch%2FV3i8i5I9DxBu3XeoU3Sl%2BpusJwdLF7X8L3EGGRMAPrdchGs%2Blru3gIK1aFxj9Fe4lvHE%2FAXxIMgy3c3g9OkukBxn82tRJoj%2BDOvM4woozMwyGOscA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABFBMlun7ifhf

[Marcremb]

14 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Could you show this please? For adjusting the timing in case you have not seen it before I will show this link to a video done by one of our best members on this forum @Uwe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT3AVgj_HLI&t=116s

If you follow right through on all of the steps you will get to where the adjustments you want to change. Another thing that may help you is this link to where I helped develop a narrow needle plate and dog foot that may help to stop the dog foot from lifting your back presser foot.

If you want to get a set pm me with your address details and I will get back with a cost.

 

[Marcremb]

On all walking foot sewing machine that i had and the ones that i now during my 32 years of sewing (unless they invented a different machine that i dont know) the walking foot meets the feed dog at the top surface level of the needle plate Also before the needle that meets them later in the cycle. 

 

So when the walking foot gets to the feed dog, it lifts the presser foot.

 

Mine is out of that adjustment. The needle enters the walking foot at the same time as the walking foot touches the feed dog that as pass the top surface of the needle plate. 

[Northmount]

@Marcremb  Moved your post to leather sewing machines.

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, Marcremb said:

Mine is out of that adjustment. The needle enters the walking foot at the same time as the walking foot touches the feed dog that as pass the top surface of the needle plate.

The 441 machines are timed slightly differently than upholstery class walking foot machines.  I have a Cowboy CB4500 and one of my buddies has a Cobra Class 4. Both of us set the feet so that the inside foot hits the throat plate at the same time as the tip of the needle. Failure to set them this way throws the reverse stitches out of sync. My upholstery grade 111 type machines usually have the needle hit first. But, I sometimes tweak these positions for different jobs.

[Constabulary]

18 hours ago, toxo said:

What a brilliant hack! I'm clumping myself upside the head for not coming up with this myself. The difference in price for these feet is nothing short of colossal.

I have a full set of spring edge guides for my Durkopp 239 (same as Singer 111) at these kind of prices,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272615402952

Versus the same thing for my Adler 69, and this is for one set of left and right of only one size. To buy the equivalent of the above would cost hundreds of pounds.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274602014562

 

Guess why I love Singer machines and Singer based machines so much

However the linked Adler feet are made by Kwokhing which is a quality manufacturer and the linked Singer feed are of unknown make as it seems.

[RockyAussie]

6 hours ago, Marcremb said:

On all walking foot sewing machine that i had and the ones that i now during my 32 years of sewing (unless they invented a different machine that i dont know) the walking foot meets the feed dog at the top surface level of the needle plate Also before the needle that meets them later in the cycle. 

 

So when the walking foot gets to the feed dog, it lifts the presser foot.

 

Mine is out of that adjustment. The needle enters the walking foot at the same time as the walking foot touches the feed dog that as pass the top surface of the needle plate. 

It looks to me that the problem is that your back foot should not be coming down onto your dog foot as it is. Several options may be able to solve that. If you have a slotted throat plate switch to that and try it. That means you have t take out the dog foot first. Second thing is widen out your Singer feet so that they cant touch the dog foot. The narrow dog foot and needle plate we make would make that a lot easier. The third thing is that I think also a part of the problem is that the Singer feet don't come as far forward as the original ones do and that it may be worth making an extension block to add to the presser bar with the slot cut out and set so that it is further forward than it presently is. This would also mean that you would not have to have your presser bar lowered and raised between different feet changes. This is the option I will work on myself. Best of luck and hope you get it working as you like.

[Marcremb]

5 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The 441 machines are timed slightly differently than upholstery class walking foot machines.  I have a Cowboy CB4500 and one of my buddies has a Cobra Class 4. Both of us set the feet so that the inside foot hits the throat plate at the same time as the tip of the needle. Failure to set them this way throws the reverse stitches out of sync. My upholstery grade 111 type machines usually have the needle hit first. But, I sometimes tweak these positions for different jobs.

Thanks Wiz 

I didn't know about the reverse sync. On those monster machines. 

I have a 144W sv 27 with reverse that works as the Upholstery walking foot sewing machine. Walking foot even on throat plate sync with feed dog and the needle comes after. Same on my other machines. 

 

[Marcremb]

5 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The 441 machines are timed slightly differently than upholstery class walking foot machines.  I have a Cowboy CB4500 and one of my buddies has a Cobra Class 4. Both of us set the feet so that the inside foot hits the throat plate at the same time as the tip of the needle. Failure to set them this way throws the reverse stitches out of sync. My upholstery grade 111 type machines usually have the needle hit first. But, I sometimes tweak these positions for different jobs.

But their is still a problem because on my 441 the feed dog meets the walking foot over the throat plate. 

5 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The 441 machines are timed slightly differently than upholstery class walking foot machines.  I have a Cowboy CB4500 and one of my buddies has a Cobra Class 4. Both of us set the feet so that the inside foot hits the throat plate at the same time as the tip of the needle. Failure to set them this way throws the reverse stitches out of sync. My upholstery grade 111 type machines usually have the needle hit first. But, I sometimes tweak these positions for different jobs.

I meant higher than the throat plate 

[toxo]

4 hours ago, Constabulary said:

 

Guess why I love Singer machines and Singer based machines so much

However the linked Adler feet are made by Kwokhing which is a quality manufacturer and the linked Singer feed are of unknown make as it seems.

I agree Folker but they do what it says on the tin. I'd love to find an "unknown" maker who would make some for the "69".

Here's a thought. Would a 111 type presser foot bar fit in the 69?

How easy is it to take out the 69 bar to modify it?

I'm seriously thinking about trading in the 69.

[CowboyBob]

12 hours ago, Marcremb said:

On all walking foot sewing machine that i had and the ones that i now during my 32 years of sewing (unless they invented a different machine that i dont know) the walking foot meets the feed dog at the top surface level of the needle plate Also before the needle that meets them later in the cycle. 

 

So when the walking foot gets to the feed dog, it lifts the presser foot.

 

Mine is out of that adjustment. The needle enters the walking foot at the same time as the walking foot touches the feed dog that as pass the top surface of the needle plate. 

I always adjusted uph machines so the needle is in the material just before the inside foot comes down & meets the feed dog,this way when the machine gets wear on it the inside foot doesn't end up pushing the material foward as it sews.

[Marcremb]

6 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

I always adjusted uph machines so the needle is in the material just before the inside foot comes down & meets the feed dog,this way when the machine gets wear on it the inside foot doesn't end up pushing the material foward as it sews.

Thanks. I now understand that their are different ways to set up the entering of the needle. 

Do you know how to adjust my machine so the feed dog and the middle foot (walking foot) will meet at the top of the throat plate? 

[Marcremb]

9 hours ago, toxo said:

I agree Folker but they do what it says on the tin. I'd love to find an "unknown" maker who would make some for the "69".

Here's a thought. Would a 111 type presser foot bar fit in the 69?

How easy is it to take out the 69 bar to modify it?

I'm seriously thinking about trading in the 69.

I know getting adler parts is a voyage(travel) .... I bought parts for my Adler 068-4272 double needles walking foot. I search for a couple weeks on the net and locally. I kept looking on the net and found Kwokhing . 

I needed 12mm between the 2 needles. 

I wasnt able to remove the 5/16 " needle clamp so i mesured the diameter of the needle bar and found a pfaff needle bar + clamp from Kwokhing at half price of Ebay.ca . I Also bought feet and feed dog that i had to grind down. They have parts that are made of hardened stainless Steel. 

The diameter and the lenght is important so if you look at different type of Singer original or clones and look for the part # on Ebay, evernice and CHPSMS give the mesurements on one of their multiple pages 

But if you thinking on drilling your parts to fit one, you better go to an expert (machinist) to get it precise. 

If your presser bar is a full metal bar and not a tube at the other end you could cut a slot as i did on the 441. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Marcremb

[Marcremb]

Do you know how to adjust my machine so the feed dog and the middle foot (walking foot) will meet at the top of the throat plate? 

[Marcremb]

On 3/24/2022 at 7:54 PM, Marcremb said:

Hello. I do Upholstery for living. I have 9 different sewing machine. I bought this 441 clone because i sometimes have to sew thick 

To be able to sew Upholstery stuff on it i have cut a slot with my dremel at the other end of the presser foot bar so i can install any kind of Walking foot Singer feet . It works great. I am very happy about it. 

The only thing is that the feed dog lifts to early before the needle and walking foot (needle foot) gets to the needle plate. 

So because it's large (feed dog) it lifts the presser foot before the needle foot (walking foot) gets down to lift the presser foot 

I would like to know where is the adjustment for that on the machine . Thanks 

Do you know how to adjust my machine so the feed dog and the middle foot (walking foot) will meet at the top of the throat plate? 

[CowboyBob]

It looks like all you need to do is rotate the feed cam on the top shaft.

Edited March 26, 2022 by CowboyBob

[Marcremb]

Do you mean the inside Shaft? 

From the access plate at the back close from the handwheel? 

[CowboyBob]

7 hours ago, Marcremb said:

Do you mean the inside Shaft? 

From the access plate at the back close from the handwheel? 

The circled cam controls the timing of the walking feet,almost all walking feet machines have & many times are not adjusted from the factory correctly.

441 top feed cam.pdf

[Marcremb]

Thanks Bob. I will try that. I thought of that one when i got facing the back of the machine but i was Wondering if it could be the next one(attachment) 

 

[CowboyBob]

That ones for the feed dog.